S13 suspension into AE86 - LCA length??

[Hen]

Learned colleagues, I've been doing some investigation of this swap and am still confounded by one detail; that is the lower control arm length needed.

The plan is to use S13 steering knuckles, S13 hubs and S13 struts with a factory lower control arm.

So if anyone who has done this can measure their control arm (whether it is custom, cut and shut or whatever) from the centre of the bolt holding it to the chassis to the centre of the balljoint I'd be very appreciative. Also info on the camber produced and whether any adjustable strut tops were needed would help too.

Armed with this info I hope a trip to Pick-A-Part will yield a wider range of suitable lower control arms for this conversion.

Thanks
Hen

[Screamn_Sleeka]

Was is a Sigma control arm used? Maybe thats for something else, cant remember.
Do u recon u could do a bit of a write up about this, it would be the same for RA celica's and stuff.

[Hen]

Sigma balljoints are nowhere near the right size. They are used with standard AE86 struts for more camber.

There are plenty of writeups already around. Simon's on the old forums, one on AE86dc, and probably more, however I've never seen this length specified accurately.

Hen

[Lambolica]

Yes this is a good question and one that I think further investigating may yield good results. i'm looking at a similar setup for the Celica and an Engineer friendly result is what i'm looking for.

Most write ups I see involve Cut and shut and the use of rose joints which I'm wanting to keep away from.

I did read in one write up that made mention of using a Cressida LCA, but this made no sense unless I'm thinking of the wrong car.

[jonra23]

I am aiming to use original LCA if i can get a suitable ball joint.

My reason for this, if I can make it work is the S13 has camber adjustment in it already so dont need to lay make the LCA longer to get better camber.

The only reason that I can see that you would go for a longer LCA is to increase track which is not why I am after, not sure what other people are chasing.

regards
jon

[roadsailing]

hey hen, in case you didn;t hear with all the jokes and dogshit at jezzas house, we are going to try to go to pick a part to scope this stuff out (this sat maybeye) there were a few cressidas lying around if you want to trial fit some stuff.

[Granto]

I'll be heading down to a wrecker for much the same thing.. most likely monday/tuesday (wether depending)

I'll be happy to post up my findings.. will probably take me all day..

However! my only concern is exactly how to measure each of the LCAs.. I'm guessing i'm going to have to rip them off one by one and measure (hence, taking all day) ..

I'd also imagine I'd need to bring an S13 strut to compare for balljoint size? or maybe not..

I've heard from rthy that the Cressida MX? (he thought MX63) was perfect and all bolt up, but i'm unsure.

I'll go measure them all anyway, then post them up .. if you guys do as well, i'm sure we can cover plenty of cars

Should we get a list of cars to check?

Grant.

p.s.

Cressida MX63
Cressida MX73
Cressida MX83

what else?

[Hen]

I think I posted in on ae86dc, but the BJ314 is a very good fit into the S13 hub. This ball joint came in a wide variety of larger Toyotas (MX(6+)*, JZX81, MA61 etc) you can cross reference them here.

You should be able to measure centre of mounting bolt to centre of ball joint (+/-5mm) with the arm still in the car.

Hen

[jonra23]

Some people are using the S13 LCAs, aparently between the RA2# arms and Sigma arms in length, needs the sides of pivot bolt tube ground same a sigma LCA, als need to drill 2 holes for caster adjustment rod to bolt on.

regards
jon

[EVOSTi]

I think I posted in on ae86dc, but the BJ314 is a very good fit into the S13 hub. This ball joint came in a wide variety of larger Toyotas (MX(6+)*, JZX81, MA61 etc) you can cross reference them here.

You should be able to measure centre of mounting bolt to centre of ball joint (+/-5mm) with the arm still in the car.

Hen

Hen, the BJ314 balljoint, i take it this does not fit in the standard ae86 arm? im wanting to keep my LCA's because they have already been rose jointed and id like to keep the adjustability.

[roadsailing]

correct evosti, they will not fit.

you will have to weld a nut to a different LCA

[jonra23]

Evosti, were you able to measure the taper in a S13 spindle?

regards
Jon

[Lambolica]

Shamelessly stole from another forum.......

i've decided to do a tech article on this as i'm recieving a few pm's on how to do it. i didn't buy the parts they came out of a car i already owned so i can't give an accurate estimate as to how much this would cost you.

you will require the following parts


s13 front coilovers

ae86 camber tops

s13 front brakes complete with hub arrangement can use CA or SR

suitable LCA, JZX81 works fine and is a bit longer than an 86 arm, can use cut and shut s13/86 arm. not street legal though.

*A6* series rackends

pair of rack boots

bluebird tie rod ends.

8 nissan mag wheel nuts (as wheel studs have different thread)

installation is self explanitory pull your old s*** out, installation is the opposite. fit the 86 cambertops to the s13 coilover and fit to strut towers. redrill the crossmember hole that the LCA bolts to, to 13mm size as the sprinter LCA bolt is smaller in diameter. the LCA can move around if the bolt doesn't "fill" the crush tube in the bush. so i highly recommend you use the JZX81 bolt and drill the mount hole on the crossmember out, it's piss easy anyway.

fit up the JZX81 arm, and bolt on the hub complete with brakes, then bolt the hub to the coilovers.

you must change the rack ends to *A6* series ones (MA61, RA60, SA63 etc) or not enough thread goes into the tierod, effectively decreasing its strength quite dramatically. you can use the 86 tierod ends but the taper is slightly different so there will be play = noise. therefore it is reccomended you change to a suitable one, i can't 100% confirm that mine are bluebird ones, so i'd advise you take the hub to a wreckers and keep trying them from other cars until you find one that fit's. then pm me and i'll update this!!

installing the new rack ends is easy enough, remove your old rack boots and bend back the locking tabs where the rack joins the rackends. undo the 86 ones and replace with th *A6* ones. i used loctite on the threads as i damaged my lock washers so couldn't refit them.

fit up some new rack boots (FYI i used repco universal rack boots didn't have to trim them or anything and they were $14 ea) thread your tierods on as far as they will go, bolt them up to your steering arm on the hub.

you will have to redrill the holes for castor rods if you use a JZX81 arm, not a big deal though. just line the castor rod up with the arm mark your holes and drill away.

by now everything should be about right, use the s13 brake hoses they will thread into the 86 solid line fine. if you choose to run CA brakes you can keep the stock 86 13/16ths master cylinder and you are restricted to a rim size of no less than 14 inches. if you want to run SR brakes you are limited to 15 inch wheels and need to upgrade to a 15/16ths master cylinder, you can use S13, R32,33 or 34 abs masters (abs masters only have 2 ports) you will have to change solid brake lines to suit this master. bleed it all throw some rims on using nissan wheel nuts as the thread is different to toyota, and drop it. set your heights (if adjustable height coilovers are used) and get a wheel alignment.

you have gained

front height adjustablity
more steering lock
bigger vented brakes
track increase (est 20-30mm per side)


it's a cost efective option if you don't mind going nissan, i feel a lot of hachi drivers are purists though and like to stick with the toyota bloodline. so you don't see it done that often.

picture below shows max camber gained, and the height shown is 120mm from sill to ground from memory at the front and 13mm at the back, all round nice and straight!! those measurements weren't taken on the hill either!! better picks up soon as i take them



JZX81 LCA



shot showing where holes need to be drilled for castor rods



SR20 brakes (no backing plates) filling a 15 inch rim



This is the tab you need to bend back a bit + you can see the seam in the background that it could contact. i think differnet brands of coilovers may have different brackets



86 vs S13 brakes

[Hen]

Still no mention of what the length of the arm is. However I hear that some have used the stock S13 arm. This is 350mm long (thanks to Rallystanza for the measuring job) so something around there should suit.

Still if anyone can shed some more light on this from personal experience that'd be good.

And Evo, I concur with shiny, BJ314 wont fit a Sprinter arm. Not without a lot of "persuasion" anyway. My measurements here. Sprinter uses BJ145.

Hen

[EVOSTi]

sorry jonra23, ive been so busy at work and totally forgot. i might pop in to work tomorrow to put a switch on my bike and hopefully i will remember then if not definately monday.

Hen, after reading the thread on ae86dc, it seems you need a longer arm than standard ae86 to keep reasonable (as in not pos) camber due to switching strut types which im sure you read also.