Blacktop ECU on a Silvertop

[Escy]

I'm considering buying a Apexi Power FC thats mapped/built for a Blacktop 20v 4age with 6 speed transmission. I've got a Silvertop with a 5 speeder, will having 1 less gear cause me any problems? Also, I understand it that other than my wiring loom using an AFM over the MAP sensor, all the wires for the ECU plugs are the same on both the ST and BT?

Cheers, Tom.

[Jorrs]

i would think that having the AFM would also cause some headaches as the air being brought in will still need top be measured and the blacktop ECU wont recognise this ?

[ViPeR_NiPPleX]

^^^ exactly. Also another thing would be VVTi control vs VVT.

[Jorrs]

really to many dramas as their quite different, would be a lot better getting an aftermarket ECU, remove the AFM, get some trumpets for the TBs get it tunedand your set !
thats what i would do if i was going down that path with mine.

[Escy]

What I plan on doing is getting an Apexi Power FC thats been designed for the BT, running it on my ST, after having swapped from a AFM to MAP sensor. The BT engine it was designed for is a 6spd though, just wondering if this may present any problems?

I will be running open TB's.

The Apexi PFC doesn't have any scope for the VVT control as far as i'm aware, so I assume the VVT won't work at all (is it mechanically or ECU driven?). I'm not sure how much of an issue that'd be if the engine is well mapped.

[sideshow]

both st and bt have only vvt none have vvti so thats not a prob

for the price of a microtech why bother gettin the pfc when its not 100% for the st

[Escy]

I've not heard on a Microtech before. Can you point me in the right direction?

Cheers, Tom.

[adamaw11]

If your the sort of person whos not afraid to tweak a few things, and take a few small risks, then yes, do it, provided you have whats necessary to make slight adjustments to the fuel/ignition timing map (i.e. laptop, hand controller etc)
As has been implied you just need to have a map sensor working.

Remember, the blacktop has slightly more compression (11:1 vs 10.5:1) so this may effect the amount of ignition advance it can take. I dare say the blacktop is likely to flow a little more air at some points on the map, making the blacktop's map slightly richer
(I've basically done this, but the other way round, had silvertop dyno tuned, aftermarkert ecu, swapped to blacktop, took a few guesses at richening it etc)

The fact that SOME blacktops came with a six speed is irrelevant for this IMO.

VVT just needs to be switched on and off at certain points. Its pretty crap if you have an ecu that can't have an auxilliary output to trigger a relay at set rpm and load points.

If you run it without vvt I reckon it would seem slow, and you'll probably think a 16v has more low-end

[spectral]

Is this the PowerFC on ebay?

Just be aware thats its not really an AE111 PowerFC, its originally designed for a SW20 MR2 3SGTE.

Also that guy that is selling it only bought it a couple of weeks earlier. There was a thread on www.twincam.info about it. Have a read. So you don't know if he tried to install it and killed it... or simply the ECU is faulty and he is trying to pass it off.

Who knows.. but tread carefully if that is the one you are considering.



EDIT: Here it is : http://www.twincam.info/index.php?showtopic=25658

[sideshow]

i would tread carefully when buying any ecu on ebay

50% of stuff on ebay is ok the rest is bullshit

people saying the product does this and that but its usually for something else or does crap

ive seen people selling resistors to solder inline on the air temp sensr or coolant tem sensor

and then saying these trick the ecu to gain alot of power

its all bullshit

for the price of a new ems or microtech or adaptronic i cant believe people risk buyin shit
like this on ebay

anyway good luck with it you might aswell buy it then tell us how you go
hehehehehheeheheheh

[Escy]

I am aware of the discussion on that link, to be honest, it seems like nothing but speculation. It did put some doubt in my mind though, hence why i'm asking on here about it.

I am in 2 minds about it all though.

[JP]

The transmission makes no difference, as does the compression difference as the ECU would need a complete fresh tune anyway.

As I said in the other thread, you would have to:
- rewire the plugs to be the same as an AE111 manual ECU (or rewire the fields harness to suit your loom),
- modify your loom to take the MAP sensor instead of the AFM,
- add in an external intake air temp sensor as your original IAT is built into the AFM.

At least it comes with a hand controller so you can reset the map to factory default, the PFC is a lot more usefull if you have a datalogit to tune it aswell.

[Escy]

How different are the harnesses, what exactly needs to be rewired? I thought other than the fact one runs an AFM and the other a MAP, the looms were the same?

Don't people commonly plug in BT ecu's on ST looms?

What does an IAT look like? Is it simple to wire up?

Thanks for your help, Tom.

[spectral]

Only the Silvertop Auto ECU has the same plugs as the Blacktop. But you'd need to rewire the plugs anyway, which is trickier than it looks until you get the knack of removing pins from the plugs.

The manual Silvertop ECUs have a different plug. A 12pin instead of the Blacktops 22pin. The 26pin and the 16pin are the same. (Again a fair amount of rewiring)

Remember the Blacktop plugs can be found in many different cars. A cheap option at the wreckers is a 1989-1991 Telstar TX5 2.2 EFI. Another is a version of the Lancer (didn't get the year model). Widebody 5SFE Camry automatic is another.


AE101: http://club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_...V%20Silver.htm

AE111: http://club4ag.com/faq%20and%20tech_..._20v_Black.htm


The intake temp sensor is just a plastic one that plugs into the blacktop intake pipework. From my experience the Holden V6 one is very similar in voltage output and is only $10 brand new. YMMV though.

[Escy]

I'm starting to get put off a bit now, this seems like it may be too hard for me. Are there any technical articles on re-wiring the plugs?

I'm from the UK, so the cars you've mentioned aren't available here.