Increasing track width.
I understand that if you increase the width of the rear wheels it can have a negative effect on your handeling. What about if you increase them both.
Ie. Spacers and some fat ass bolt on guards? I presume you can still set it up OK as you see it so often.
What about increasing the front track width? Ie. FWD celica, with bigger wheels on the front. Any problems?
HZJ75, RS41, JZZ30
Re: Increasing track width.
It would be Illegal on a road car unless engineered for starters....
increaseing the rear would have a negative effect.
Increasting the front would be positive effect.
Both would be a positive.
However before doing this on a road car look at the springs, sway bars etc and improve these first.
Beige.... The new Black!!!
Re: Increasing track width.
Originally Posted by NeoNasty
thats also impossible to get engineered, you can never have wider wheels at the front of a car, the widest wheels always have to be at the back unless they are the same all round. I asked an engineer about that when i did my celica
and make sure if you do choose to go with spacers do it properly and get longer wheel studs, more safe that way
89' MR2 AW11... His
00' MR2 ZZW30... Hers
Re: Increasing track width.
Increasing track greater than 25mm is illegal generally in all states of Australia. You can get right up to this limit with bigger/wider rims and the right offset, but I would caution you in doing this to both ends of the car at the same time, just the front only will make it handle worse. If its an ST162 I would not touch it as they are a great handling car in standard spec.
If you are chasing better handling you should be looking at bigger/better sway bars, springs and struts.
Re: Increasing track width.
increasing track "for a given suspension/axle unit" by more than 25mm is not legal (due to extra bearing loads etc...
however... there is nothing specific to prevent you from transplanting in an axle or front suspension setup with wider track to begin with, as long as it is done well.... and then the track measurement is based on the bew bits, not the original body.
perhaps not so feasible for a FWD tho...
"I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
"There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!
Re: Increasing track width.
This doesn't work in Queensland and i'm not sure about anywhere else.
Re: Increasing track width.
I've done the "transplant from another car" thing with my Starlet, but had cost reasons rather than just to widen the track. For details and pics see my members rides thread http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=711
The big thing is though this car is in NZ, where pretty much anything goes as long as you do it properly. The important question is what do you hope to achieve and are there easier/cheaper/more legal ways to do it? For a road car I would say don't bother, a wider set of wheels with factory offset and GOOD tyres will be a lot more effective.
Callum
Re: Increasing track width.
According to John Kean (who engineered my car), that's exactly how it works in Qld.
Norbie!
www.norbie.net
Re: Increasing track width.
Nope. Cause I have RA40 struts with the MS65 hubs which increases the width more than 25mm. This is causing some serious engineering troubles
Re: Increasing track width.
Kick ass, thanks guys. Yeah I would do all the usual up grades first anyway. Just seeing what avenues I had.
HZJ75, RS41, JZZ30
Re: Increasing track width.
are the hubs increasing the (effective) track of the RA40 struts? ie spacing the wheel mounting point further out?Nope. Cause I have RA40 struts with the MS65 hubs which increases the width more than 25mm. This is causing some serious engineering troubles
if all you have changed is the struts and hubs, then the track change is in relation to your original cross-member, lower arms and (more specifically) steering... the idea is to inimise the changes in bump steer and gemoetry changes..
perhaps you could swap in cross-member of different car and get around it
code LS3, point 4. re: complete steering and suspension conversion
for modified suspension systems, it states camber change should be minimised. but if you transplant a stock system from a slightly wider car, then the actual suspension design is unmodified.. ie you are not changing steering and suspension gemoetry from original design.
the a little further down it says specifically:they are pretty specific that the track change is based on the components. so if you swap in sayy.. celica front and rear suspension systes into a corolla (or whatever) then the track is based on the suspension components, no the car itself..TRACK. where non-original axle or suspension cross-member components are fitted, the offset in relation to the axle or hub assembly used must not be increased by more than 12.5mm each side of the vehicle based on the specifications of the axle components being used. if an axle asembly is shortened then the track width limit is taken as the manufacturers original track dimension, less the amont the assembly has been narowed, plus 25mm.
this is from the new national draft of mods, but is the same wording to what NSW had before.
i would think based on the wording above, that, within reason, you cold argue that it is fine to increase track by whatever as long as the whels are covered by guards.
how do you read the above extract?
"I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
"There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!
Re: Increasing track width.
I dont have the blue book in front of me, but I would say there is more specification to what you have posted.
When I fitted the hilux diff to the Celica, the blue book stated silmilar information about axle upgrades saying that the upgraded axle had to be within 25mm of the receiving cars original specification.
Re: Increasing track width.
In saying that, most engineers I doubt would even bother looking up such a thing let alone measure it.
Re: Increasing track width.
true...
perhaps QLD had more strict wording compared to the current NSW and these new national draft regs
http://www.dotars.gov.au/transreg/vs...19sept2005.pdf
my reading of the previous NSW rules (virtually identical to these) and initial consultation with conservative engineer seemed to indicate no issues, as locg as track change of donor to recieveing car was not too substantial (100mm total was thought to be ok as long as it didn't affect ackermann angles greatly)
"I'm a Teaspoon, not a mechanic"
"There is hardly anything in the world that a man can not make a little worse and sell a little cheaper" - John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)
AU$TRALIA... come and stay and PAY and PAY!!! The moral high horse of the world!
Re: Increasing track width.
What old Corollas has stated is true in far as my experience within NSW. Even so if you have used the front end components of a slightly wider car etc as your donor most engineers I have dealt with (outside Sydney) will be more concerned with bump steer and adverse steering/suspension affects than they are over track.
Which is sensible.
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