dry ice cooling?? your thoughts?

[BeRad]

revs. per minute rwhp. - no ice rwhp. - dry ice rwhp gain percentage gain boost - no ice boost - dry ice boost - gain percentage gain

8000 rpm 483 rwhp 523 rwhp 40 rwhp 8.3 % 38 open wastegate 38 open wastegate 0.0 0.0
7000 502 534 32 6.4 % 38 psi 38 psi 0.0 0.0
6000 350 516 166 147.5 % 34 38 4.0 psi 11.8%
5330 186 363 177 195.2 % 11 28 17.0 254.5%
5000 149 267 118 179.2 % 8 19 11.0 237.5%
4000 86 123 37 43.0 % 3 5 2.0 166.6%


HAha it didnt turn out so well, thats the table taken from a.r.e testing on rods evo.

table goes from left to right

rpm, hp without dry ice, hp with dry ice, difference/gain, % gain, boost no ice,boost with ice, difference , % difference.

[thunderbird2]

Here's a pic I took of Jak/TRB01J's dry ice setup at Toyotafest - yes, it was very cool. Sorry, couldn't help myself

[BeRad]

Are those n20 lines i see?

[Dieseltrain]

Yes they ARE!

[6BOOST]

As the only person here who seems to run an ACTUAL dry ice intercooler, perhaps I can be of some help??

Firstly, I have run previously a (barrel style) water to air intercooler system, and used a front mount heat exchanger, as well as a holding tank with a dry ice cooling tube in it, and a water/alcohol mixture circulating through it so it didn't freeze at 0 deg, as well as the alcohol having better heat transfer properties. Lets just say it was the biggest waste of money and time ever, with coolant temps in the negatives, inlet temps would rise to 60 deg C. We tried better water pumps, various %'s of alcohol and water, I just couldn't find an acceptable result.

Secondly, from a tuning perspective, Dry ice cooling is 100% repeatable and reliable, no need to change fuel/timing maps. You use the temperature compensation maps to add more fuel and timing as the air temps get lower and lower. If you have a proper dry ice cooler, simply start by half filling it, so you get down around 5 degrees, and give it a few runs, use the calibration tables to add more fuel to get the same 12:1 AF you had pre ice, DO NOT change the fueling numbers in the main map. Then add more and more ice till your completely filling it with the lowest temps possible, and keep tuning with the temp compensation. Honestly, it only takes 5-8 dyno runs from a normal tune to get it spot on.

In all applications I have seen, you don't add more ignition timing, your making more power for the same ignition timing, so technically your kinda do have more timing if that makes sense, normally if you tuned the boost up for that extra 20-50hp gain, you'd be backing the timing off.

Forget the dry ice packed in front of a normal cooler, its completely useless. Not only are you blocking frontal airflow to the radiator, the dry ice has no air passing over it and through the intecooler core to exchange heat with the fins of the cooler. BAsically, about 5% of the surface area of the core will be in contact with it, if that.

Power gains with small turbo's is minimal, you need enough turbo flow in reserve to make some extra mumbo with dry ice. I have seen cars pick up 100+rwhp with no ice-ice back to back runs. My car personally on low boost picks up 20rwhp, I'm not close to pushing it yet, it was designed for 38psi, at which point with my new 70mm turbo, I'm expecting at least 50rwhp gain, if not 80-100rwhp gain.

The massive benifit of dry ice is spool. My car picks up a full 1000rpm of spool when you add dry ice, bringing it back from 6000rpm to 5000rpm. It won't even transbrake with no dry ice, and while still a little slow with the ice, brings it up in 7 seconds when filled with dry ice.

The best of both worlds setup I can possibly think of is what I currently run, which is a front mount intercooler and a dry ice cooler together. When drving around on the street, you still have the benifit of a front mount and can drive the car normally. In fact, the heatsink properties of the dry ice cooler actually help pull about another 7-8 degrees out of the air, I have actually seen ambient inlet temps on a nightime drive before. Further to this, as the front mount pulls out most of the heat, lets say down to 50 deg C, then the dry ice cooler can be far smaller to get an effective result. My core is 300x300x109mm thick, and with 550hp, my inlet temps start at -37 after a burnout and get to 0 degrees at 1200ft, crossing the finish line at 7 degrees positive.

On the dyno though with a single pull inlet temps start at -45 and finish at about -21 to -26 degrees. I personally will never have another tuff street style car without it that runs of fuel and not methanol, you can effectively run a size bigger turbo for any given capacity and the hp gains that come with it, the dry ice takes care of the spool, I don't care if it makes no extra power. You also have consistant racing, between a 30 degree day and a 18 degree night actual engine air inlet temps may only vary 2-5 degrees, this means consistant hp throughout the day, consistancy wins races.

The leaders in the dry ice cooling industry are by far and away ARE cooling, they did all my dry ice setup, and they have a computer sizing/modelling program that was designed by them/for them, and in my instance, with the correct input parameters, the dry ice setup works with 2 degrees of what the computer modelled that it would. You pay for what you get, they are not the cheapest, but certainly the best. Word of caution, intercoolers in barrels don't work so well, been there, done that, had problems, no answers from the seller, and wasted 2g of my money and many many hours of my time on a useless product tested every which way to sunday with the same result. Have had the same feedback from numerous other customers also.

If you call ARE (07 32054620) for any help and advise, ask for Richard, and tel him I sent you.

Cheers..................................6BOOST

[GU11TY]

hey mate thanks for the info
yeh ill see how my car goes and think about dry ice

[DigitalPho3nix]

Here's a pic I took of Jak/TRB01J's dry ice setup at Toyotafest - yes, it was very cool. Sorry, couldn't help myself

I am sorry I can't see how this would work?

If I am looking at it right, he is feeding CO2 directly into his intake charge.

Unless there is another metal pipe in there drawing air from below the box....

[jak]

if you are going to do it, you want the IC to stay at a constant temp.

getting it 20-30deg colder to begin with is fine, but once you are going, it will heat up just as fast.. you have that initial buffer of temp.. but EVERYTHING, including the outside air, is trying to warm it up.

if you want to properly thermally manage things.. you need a cooling medium between the dry ice and the incoming air ... it is not only about temp but thermal capacity etc..

im not sure about that. we rest a bag of dry ice ontop of the plenum and it gets inlet temps down to about 6*C, then by the time we line up again (takes about 2 mins to get back in line) its only about 20-30. and without it altogether its usually about 40+.

DT: if you had a lid ontop of the tray, yes it would work, but i dont think it would do as much as just resting it on the plenum.

BOC at Kings park do dry ice, and i think they also have it at weatheril park, but not all of them have it.

It works like this...







Jak

[The Real Roadrunner]

excellent write up 6boost.

is there any chance of pics of your cooler with no ice in it to show everyone how they work.(ive fitted 2 of them b4 but i dont think too many ppl have seen them in the flesh)

they are similar to a air-air core but dont have fins where the ambient air normally runs therefore allowing the dry ice to sit between the runners resulting in a huge temp drop thru the core.

cheers
linden

[NeoNasty]

That box looks so simple. I guess although it may not be the most efficient, it also allows you to drive it around with no ice in the box.

Looks awsome with the ice all over it too! I find myself trying to find excuses to buy more dry ice. haha

[BeRad]

neonasty, so do the proper ones, you can still drive around as normal.

jak, what intake temps do you get ?

[jak]

fromt he ice box alone, i think about 10*C.

can get it down to 0 with ice on the plenum.

It might not be the the most efficent, but as we are running a normal air to air cooler aswell, its just as good.

Jak

[The Real Roadrunner]

fromt he ice box alone, i think about 10*C.

can get it down to 0 with ice on the plenum.

It might not be the the most efficent, but as we are running a normal air to air cooler aswell, its just as good.

Jak

maybe in the pits but not once you do a burnout.

probly stops too much heatsoak because everything is cold b4 the burnout but it wont do a hell of alot once it comes on boost compared to a properly built one.

not trying to have a dig as its good to see ppl trying stuff on a budget but i dont want to see it copied by 50ppl who then complain that it doesnt work great.

good place to keep the cans cool between runs on those hot jambo days though

cheers
linden

[6BOOST]

I'll be another one to ask what your actual inlet temps are by the end of the track, and compared to normal. There simply isn't enough surface area or charge air coming into contact with the pipe to effectively cool it, it would kinda be like running no intercooler and expecting a piece of 3" piping running straight accross the front of the car to cool the air. Again like Roadrunner, I'm not trying to bag what your doing, this would make a measureable difference, especially to heat soak, but my intercooler setup is far more advanced than what you have there, and it even reachs 7 degrees by the finish line.

I don't have any pics with lid off the cooler and no ice sorry Linden, I've got a camera and the car here, I'll take some later and put em up.

6BOOST

[jak]

no worries, ill get my bro to check it at the end and if i can, i will log the runs as well.

As i said, never really wanted power out of it, just consistancy.

Jak