Engineering and engine changes in Victoria

[parrot]

Although this reflects the situation in Victoria, i would be surprised if the situation was much different in other states.

After seeing the same question a thousand times, I wrote to Vicroads explaining my specific situation in detail, vis that I had installed a 16 valve bigport 4AGE into my ADM delivered AE86. Along with the engine change, I explained that I had also changed over essentially every other part of the car to that fitted in an overseas spec 4AGE engined car, suspension, brakes, fuel system, emissions etc etc.

I explained that I had looked in detail through Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) 8, Guide to Modifications for Motor Vehicles, and been unable to find specific reference to installing an engine available in this vehicle overseas, although ADR's are much mentioned.

To cut a long story short, the answer is YES, if you put a 4AGE of ANY TYPE into an AE86 it requires an engineers certificate to be road legal in Victoria. Obviously this also applies to 2TG's into earlier Corolla's and Celica's, 18RG's etc etc? And of course 4AGE's into xE70/71's and no doubt lots of other Toyota models I know nothing about.

The letter from Vicroads is attached and self explanatory. The highlighting was done by me.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...6/vicroads.gif

Whilst looking through the vicroads website for something else last week, I also found this which essentially says the same thing.

"Notifying VicRoads of changes and modifications to vehicles

Change of Engine
1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle
The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine, have been completed."

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form [PDF 24kb] and provide VicRoads with:

* a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
* an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine

The only way around this is if someone is able to get documentary proof that Toyota did actually bring in a quantity of 4AGE engined AE86's at some stage as often rumoured though never categorically proven.

I for one will be getting my car engineered. What you do is up to you.

Have posted this here as it seems relevant for the conversion section, but please move to General Car talk if applicable.

[Grega]

surely the ae86 must have come into AU with a 4AGE in smallish numbers....surely...

[oldcorollas]

surely the ae86 must have come into AU with a 4AGE in smallish numbers....surely...

nope, never...

you have ALWAYS needed to engineer the car in NSW.. i had thought the wording you show above (ie, offered in australia) was prety much self explanatory?

some AE82? and AE92? had 4AGE, so it is possible for them, but never an AE86.
even if they had, it was only the bigport, never the small port or 20V or GZE models..

[LeeRoy]

And the celicas can get away with engineering 2tg's and 18rg's as they were available from australian dealers in 22's, 23's, and 28's.

[parrot]

Surprised to hear of 2TG's and 18RG's into Celica's in Australia but not my area. I'll add a question mark above.

I do hear occasionally of a supposed small quantity of 4AG equipped AE86's coming into Australia via Toyota, but have seen no convincing evidence. I would like to try and get something from Toyota in writing but only want to contact them from an informed position or they will just return a form letter.

If anyone has some accurate useful info regarding this, I would be very happy to see it.

[GA61XX]

Wow..!! i thought S.A. was bad....

But i had No prob's with my RA40, when i fitted the 21R motor...
& i had, weber, No air pump (polution crap), mild cam, no cat..
They loved the idea, as 21R motor will run on ULpetrol..
I asked if i had to run a cat, & was told that it was not needed..
i was also told the same about the air pump crap...
& yet the RA40 did not have a 21R opption ..
but the RT133 came with the 21R..
i've even fitted a 21R to a TA22 & had no prob's with rego. could of even fitted a 22RE..
as we can go half our cubes again, eg. 1600cc + 800cc = 2400cc..

[joey]

So if i put my 2tg into my 75 ta22 i will need an engineers certificate? I always thought i just needed to notify vic roads of the change as it was an option for the celica hmmm semms ghey if u ask me.
Cheers, Joey

[-NiCkeL-]

If the 2TG GT TA22 was offered in Australia for pruchase, then you will not need an engineers report.

If you turn up to VicRoads at 5pm on a Friday afternoon with a purchase reciept, the car and your licence they'll just change the engine number on the paperwork for you - I doubt you'll have an issue.

[GA61XX]

So if i put my 2tg into my 75 ta22 i will need an engineers certificate? I always thought i just needed to notify vic roads of the change as it was an option for the celica hmmm semms ghey if u ask me.
Cheers, Joey

And the celicas can get away with engineering 2tg's and 18rg's as they were available from australian dealers in 22's, 23's, and 28's.

I would just notify vic roads of the change, as the 2TG was an option for the celica

[parrot]

The point of the above is that if your vehicle was available through the dealer network IN AUSTRALIA with a given engine, then it has been through ADR's and is thus registerable as is.

If not, then it needs an engineers report.

I didn't know celicas were available with a 2TG in Australia. Does anyone have a scan of a dealer brochure?

[MRMOPARMAN]

hang on, i call shinnanigans to that. you havent replaced the engine with a different type, only the head.

the engine was originally a 4A and thats whats gone back into it, therefore the engine replacement rules dont apply.

that rule was designed for cars with 2 different types of engines, eg i6 and V8 falcons etc.

celicas fall into the same catagory as the sprinter as they use the same* bottom end (ie engine) for both types of head.

[stidnam]

I know in NSW there is a 15% allowance you can increase your engine capacity by. This means that if the car had a 1.6L in it then you can legally go and put a 1.8L in it providing there are no major structural changes to the car ie mounts etc. This may include changes like a 3t into a ta22 or a l28 into a 240z. I don't think this covers then going and putting a turbo on it though .

The VSI says that minor modifcations do not need formal certification and that the following falls under a minor modification

"Engine changes where the capacity increase is less than 15% above the maximum size engine available for the vehicle (providing no major structural modifications are necessary and where noise and/or exhaust emission ADRs apply, all standard equipment such as carburettors, exhaust systems, exhaust gas recirculating valves, oxygen sensors and catalytic convertors relating to noise and emission control are retained and operate correctly)."

I would have thought there would have been something similar in VIC.

*edit* well after searching the vic roads site that just sucks for VIC people. Glad I don't live in VIC and then again jeleous of those QLD people who seem to have such lax engineers :S.

stidnam

[Screamn_Sleeka]

"Engine changes where the capacity increase is less than 15% above the maximum size engine available for the vehicle (providing no major structural modifications are necessary and where noise and/or exhaust emission ADRs apply, all standard equipment such as carburettors, exhaust systems, exhaust gas recirculating valves, oxygen sensors and catalytic convertors relating to noise and emission control are retained and operate correctly)."

If you actually try that, and say you put a 3T in a TA22. So you have replaced a 1.6 with a 1.8 which is under 15, that will work fine, but if you put in a 2zz-ge (also 1.8ltr), it will need custom engine mounts will clash with the "structural modifications". Not to mention how bloody hard a 2zz-ge rwd would be...

[MRMOPARMAN]

hmmmm. 7age into ae71

[joey]

And the celicas can get away with engineering 2tg's and 18rg's as they were available from australian dealers in 22's, 23's, and 28's.

I would just notify vic roads of the change, as the 2TG was an option for the celica

Would i need a new road worth certificate aswell?