T-50 22spline in 2T

[dave-86]

hey guys after my last engine conversion on my ta22 and replacing the old one with a 2T, i didnt think much about changing the old gearbox along with it, except I replaced all the bearings instead.

I notice a great difference in power but something just didnt feel right. I realise with old gearbox still in, the gear ratios must of been to big.

Im thinking of getting a T-50 22spline in now but found out the T-50 that came with the 2T engines were only 20 spline. Will the 22spline still fit the 2T or am i required to change the bellhousing? or what would i need to replace to fit the 22spline. Will the gear lever be relocated? etc. If theres other things i need to know please let me know.

Im David by the way, im a new member on the forums.
Thanks

[1JZ-Rolla]

Hi David, i'm sure one of the keener T series forum guys will correct me if i'm wrong (its been a while since i've had a T motor), but from memory the 22 spline boxes are most commonly from behind 4A motors, so yes, you will most likely swap the bellhousing from a T motor. To do this you also need to use the conical washers and thrust bearing carrier from the 2T box, as they provide the correct alignment for the input & lay shafts. This will make sense when you take them apart side by side & compare.

No changes will be required to your clutch/crank/pilot bearing setup, but the 22 splines are on the output shaft side, so your tailshaft will not fit.

The shifter will be located a few inches further back (which is a good thing in my opinion, I don't like the forward shifter in the '22), necessitating the removal of some metal from the transmission tunnel to allow the shifter to come up through the floor closer to the handbrake.

Expect also to have to muck around with finding the correct speedo drive, as i'm sure the 4A diff combo is a different ratio to what you have now in the Celica.

Have you actually confirmed that the gearbox ratios between the 20 & 22 spline T50's is different?

Best of luck!

Cheers
Phil

[Rodger]

Welcome aboard David.

There are other threads about, and a couple of good ones are buried in the past but go into some detail.

However Phil is nearly right, but it is more difficult.

The 2T bell housing will not bolt straight onto the better A series T50. (I have said this before.) I wish Toyota had called the A series gearbox an A50.

It is actually the better box as the bearings are bigger roller ones and not the plain type. Here in lies the hurdle.

The 2T bell housing has not got the machined castings to clear all the 4A parts and Phil mentions above using the 2T bits but that wont work either.

One method would be to make up an adaptor plate to fit the A series to the 2T motor.

A better option again would be to find a W50 series box from behind a 3T-GTE. Stronger again but again need to sort out mounting, shift position and tail shaft.

Regards

Rodger

[1JZ-Rolla]

The 2T bell housing will not bolt straight onto the better A series T50. (I have said this before.) I wish Toyota had called the A series gearbox an A50.

It is actually the better box as the bearings are bigger roller ones and not the plain type. Here in lies the hurdle.

The 2T bell housing has not got the machined castings to clear all the 4A parts and Phil mentions above using the 2T bits but that wont work either.

Is there a difference then between the 2T (TA22) bellhousing and the 3T (TE72 T18) bellhousing then? Cause I managed to fit them up without a drama behind my 3T turbo back in the day.

[WDE_BDY]

Welcome aboard David.
A better option again would be to find a W50 series box from behind a 3T-GTE. Stronger again but again need to sort out mounting, shift position and tail shaft.

Regards

Rodger

It was a W55 behind the 3T-GTE, although apparently there is a T to W50 bellhousing. There is also a 22 spline T50 behind some later 3T engines (3T-EU I believe) but pretty rare. I am supposed to be acquiring one soon so will get pics for comparison.

Callum

[dave-86]

Thanks for all your input guys, appreciated it. heres something i read regarding the T50 gearboxes.

"The T-50 gearbox was fitted to other engines as well, such as 1S, 2S, 2T, 3T etc. The gearbox itself is visually identical, however the bellhousings differ to suit the parent engine, and the tailshaft housings vary. There are two types of T-50 gearbox - referred to as 20 and 22 spline. This relates to the number of splines on the gearbox output shaft. They both have the same number of splines on the input shaft. There is also a difference in the diameter of the input shaft bearing, which is covered by the bellhousing - 62 mm vs. 68 mm. I ass-u-me the 68 mm bearing is the 22 spline gearbox. The 22 spline gearbox is more desirable as it is apparently stronger. It is also what all AE 86 RWD 4AGEs came with.

This means that the ability to swap a bellhousing is dependent upon getting a bellhousing to match the input bearing diameter. This is particularly important if you wish to upgrade from a (say) 2TG engine to a 4AGE, and intend re-using the gearbox. I suspect some 2TG T-50s are 20 spline and others are 22.

The AE 85/86 series T-50 gearboxes are 650 mm from bellhousing to centre of the gearlever mount, however some tailshaft housings fitted to other cars are shorter, possibly allowing relocation of the gearlever with some mixing and matching of components.

In Australia at least, SOHC 4A engine T-50 bell housings have the clutch mechanism on the LHS, whilst 4AGEs have it on the right. I found a 3A T-50 with a LHS clutch slave cylinder recently. I believe all K-50 bellhousings are RHS clutch mechanism - certainly in New Zealand." for more info link: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8422/4age.htm

Im not sure what gearbox to get anymore it seems rather complicated and might be abit expenive. What would you suggest the best option to go for a 2T-GEU? the T50 it would of originally came with (20 spine as it suggests in above article).

[WDE_BDY]

I doubt you will notice any real difference between a 20 and 22 spline so I would just do the easy option of another 20 spline if you do have to swap. Off the top of my head there is no difference in the ratios anyway, but have a search around to confirm that.

Callum

[smitty1]

Sorry to hijack your thread, but I am after the complete oposite. I want the forward shifter position (not to cut the tunnel and to reuse the console in ke2X) but I want to attach it to a 4age. I have a 22 spline JDM box and a 20 spline ADM box. Is there an easy way to acheive the forward position?