4AGE 20v potential

[greenmac80]

Ok i'm just curious as to how much boost could you run reliably on a stock 20v motor?

I am putting a 20v into my KE55 and i don't think i'm gonna be happy with the power as a stock engine.
I might be but i've never been in a KExx with a 4age in it.
Anyone got a comparison or the sorta cars they can beat?

[TC1600]

Short answer, very little. The static comp is too high for boost, and the pistons etc wouldn't be stong enough. If you want to run boost, get a 4A-GZE, if you want N/A, run a 20V.

[greenmac80]

Ok if i was to put forged internal etc an ran boost the potential would be pretty good?

if i was to keep it na what sort of upgrades am i looking at.
i have a 20v atm.

cams..
cam gears...
what else?
computer...

[oldcorollas]

go for a drive with someone who has a 16V or 20V in a corolla, or something of similar weight.
as a first step.

[oldeskewltoy]

20V black... don't waste your $$ The blacktop internals are waaaaay to light and flimsey to run with any REAL boost. The 20V Silvertop, on the other hand, is PERFECT for boost. The crank and rods are the same pieces used in the last gen 4AGZE. I believe Arias makes a 20V low compression piston (specifically for boost). For best flow... I'd still look to see if a blktop head could be added... it is a better design overall.

[greenmac80]

20V black... don't waste your $$ The blacktop internals are waaaaay to light and flimsey to run with any REAL boost. The 20V Silvertop, on the other hand, is PERFECT for boost. The crank and rods are the same pieces used in the last gen 4AGZE. I believe Arias makes a 20V low compression piston (specifically for boost). For best flow... I'd still look to see if a blktop head could be added... it is a better design overall.

I thought the only diff between the blacktop and silver top was the different wieght in internals?

how are the heads different? i thought that the only difference is the throttle bodies. silvertop throttle bodies are only a few mm smaller? they are both vvt... according to wiki.

well i have a silvertop anyway.

[merc-blue]

cams..
cam gears...
what else?
computer...

any reason you would need different camgears?.
Its quite hillarous how many cars you see with adjustable cam gears which are still i std settings even with a decked head/block


The only advantage of a 20V over a 16V is the inlet,
Sell the 20V buy a GZE put new rings and bearings in it!
it will be cheaper than preparing a 20V for boost and you will have better results.


the 16V head is insanly better than a 20V

[Billzilla]

Ok if i was to put forged internal etc an ran boost the potential would be pretty good?

if i was to keep it na what sort of upgrades am i looking at.
i have a 20v atm.

cams..
cam gears...
what else?
computer...

As mentioned above - Just get a 4AGZE and the hard work is done for you.
Just get a decent inlet & exhaust manifold for it, a good turbo, adjustable cam pulleys (gears is the wrong term), and something like an Adaptronic ECU.
All the same grea that you were going to get for the 20v but the only difference is the GZE engine itself.
Note that they're all starting to get prettty old so it might need a freshen-up before running it hard.

[adamaw11]

Ok i'm just curious as to how much boost could you run reliably on a stock 20v motor?

I used to hear of people running 10psi for a fair while without anything going wrong on standard internal'd silvertops - and the first thing to break with much over that, would be the stock inlet chamber funnily enough.
I really wouldn't expect it to last that long with that much boost though, but still it probably depends a lot on other things like intercooling and tuning etc.

[greenmac80]

Ok well forget forced induction then.
i'm not going to sell the 20v na its got more hp than the 16v's.

the hard work has been done on the gze but the potential in a 20v is more.
might cost more but the total outcome should be better.

sooo with forced induction aside if i want to get to about 220hp na what would i be looking at doing?

[finney]

lots.. and it would cost around twice as much as getting that power out of a GTE. not to mention the fact that it wouldn't come to life until well up in the rev range due to the duration of the cams you'd be look it.

Having had a silvertop 20V and then having moved to a GTE i'd say just go straight for the GTE. Torque is great and even with a TD04L (wrx turbo - cheap as chips) on a stock motor you'll have more than enough power to keep you happy.

Mine is a AE92 gze with td04l and has a nice steady power curve that just builds progressively
dyno sheet

[KE25 RACER]

I assume this it to be used as a road car?
As already mentioned, getting good numbers from the 20v will be high up in the rev range making it Very difficult to drive on the road, i have a 20v silver N/A in my race car making Excess of 200HP, but does nothing under 5500RPM

[chiksluvit]

to get it up to 220~245hp you're looking at doing a 7age conversion, with custom crank and pistons (can use 4agze pistons i've heard).... you'll cams, valve springs....

as for turbo charging you can do 4agze block and 20v head, or swap the internals over from gze and lower the compression... i figured this is the most cost efficient way to do a turbo conversion on 20v
20v isn't that bad, it's good for what it is, but to get that much more power out of it you'll need to spend a lot of money, time and work, just like ANY naturally aspirated engine and remember it's only 1.6...

[greenmac80]

lots.. and it would cost around twice as much as getting that power out of a GTE. not to mention the fact that it wouldn't come to life until well up in the rev range due to the duration of the cams you'd be look it.

Having had a silvertop 20V and then having moved to a GTE i'd say just go straight for the GTE. Torque is great and even with a TD04L (wrx turbo - cheap as chips) on a stock motor you'll have more than enough power to keep you happy.

Mine is a AE92 gze with td04l and has a nice steady power curve that just builds progressively
dyno sheet

the lack of torque is why i was considering an sc12 or sc14. for the low down boost!
then you should have a decent amount of power through most of the rev range!

i've already got the 20v and i'm not gonna get rid of it.. already spent money on it and i won't get it back.

the gze pistons might be the way to go or as said before that kit from Arias if i do go forced induction.

thing is that it is a daily driver. but i love doing hill climbs which is where the high revs power would be good.

I want to get the most out of the engine i've got.

[chiksluvit]

same, i want to get the most out of my bt 20v too
but costly though
with stock bottom end, maintaining drivability, 272in ex cams with slightly raised compression ratio will probably only get you around 180hp.. while keeping streetability and ok idle, which is still impressive for a 1.6L NA motor. in NA form within the streetable limit, it'll be better than the 16v. 16v can accomodate even bigger cams and get more power than 20v, but with those cams, it's hardly streetable at all...
Over 180hp it's the 7age or 4agte or even 7agte

luckily there are actually lots of resources for 20v, since it's one of the most popular engines in the prb series...