Preferred camshaft degreeing kit????

[oldeskewltoy]

The short block comes back tomorrow (see http://www.toymods.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35553 )

I'm looking for a degreeing kit.

degree wheel*
pointer
dial gauge*
dial gauge holder*
and then accessories

* - In particular with 4AG engines in mind.

Are there any that perform better than others? I know in essence there are only a few parts to any particular kit, so what I'm asking for is your experience with a particular kit, any that work well with 4AG engines???

[oldcorollas]

degree wheel, check tech FAQ. tania(?) free wheel.
or a 6" 360deg protractor(? i forget name ) and then drill the centre...
pointer is just a bit of wire.
dial gauge and holder..... depends what quality you want? mitutoyu? made in US of A? perhaps a lang shaft one will be good, to get past cam.
holder... maybe need to adapt one. make some plates to bolt to holes on head, since magnetic one on head is no go.

all depends hwo much you wan tto spend? you could just bend over for SmapOn

[turbo4agte]

I like using the Snap-on dial indicator with locking snake arm... it works really good. The one I use looks like this, but I think the dial indicator is a little different:


But just looking at the catalog price (GA3634), it turns out its $359 for it. Talk about bending over. Luckily I get 50% off this stuff since Im still a student.

Can't really recommend the rest of the stuff, as I will be sourcing/trying it out myself soon enough.

[w810sc]

For 2T-G, might be the same as 4A-G
I went from this:



to this:

unbolt the nut from the cam caps, install dial indicators, reinstall nuts.

1 x dial indicator + 1 x magnetic base = about $90 depends where you go.
down load for free a degree wheel from the net and glue it on a flat piece of alloy and cut it out. Make up your own holders and degree wheel.

[oldeskewltoy]

nice stuff w810sc.........

Since the head is aluminum, I spent some time designing last night. The parts needed to set timing are the dial gauge, the timing wheel and pointer, a piston stop and a place to mount the dial gauge.

I designed a 75mm x 75mm plate. 6mm thick. I'll use a broken spark plug as the basic mount for the piston stop AND the gauge base's steel plate.
With the guts removed from the housing of a spark plug, I'll weld on a nut so that the plug base has internal threads. I'll then get a threaded section that fits the internal threads. This will be the piston stop. The threaded section will be long enough to pass above the cam cover ledge(total length to be about 120-150mm).
The above designed plate will slip over the threaded section and can then get tightened with a nut from above on the threaded section. Thus the spark plug insert will not only be the piston stop, but the assembly securing the steel plate to affix the dial gauge mount

OR... just do as I did below........

[turbo4agte]

Wow.... That's too cool.

[amichie]

Do you know the 50 thou lift timing?

If so inlet opening and exhaust closing usually occur close enough to top dead centre that you can use the ignition timing marks.

That way you dont need to buy any degreeing wheel etc. I also used the little depth gauge thing on my vernier calipers as a substitute for the dial gauge.

[oldeskewltoy]

But just looking at the catalog price (GA3634), it turns out its $359 for it.

WOW...... I found this over at ebaY for about $45



and I found it over at my local Harbor Freight(low cost tool company in USA) for $27

So I have the dial indicator and its brace. I used a spare head to test place it without contacting the cams - so when it comes time for real it should be no problem.

Got a degree wheel - tons online, I looked for awhile, found one I liked and copied it. Made a few additions to it.



I'll glue this down, then over it I'll get a clear film


Having a friend make me a steel wheel so I can fit it. Finally, the diameter of the hole in the timing wheel to fit the crank bolt measures .475 I'm having a friend make me this plate/timing wheel so there should be no issues about wobble. Since I'm making the plate in steel, I figured a couple of trimmed(into arrow shape) refrigerator magnets should mark the exact point on the wheel for cam timing events

[turbo4agte]

Harbor Freight usually does have some crackhead pricing on their tools. I just dont know the accuracy of their measuring equipment, but I have no grounds for doubting it since I've never bought any of it.

I think I saw a digital 0-1" micrometer for something like $10 once. Decided to pass and instead bought used a Mitutoyo from eBay for $40. Let us know how it works out. It might be a cheap source for dial indicators. If so, Im planning on trying to build a rig like w810sc posted.

[oldeskewltoy]

Although accuracy is important...

in this application the major issue is not measure the lift... but measuring the point in time of initial movement. Too set the camshaft to begin to open the valve at the time specified by the camshaft maker.

Since this head and block have seen the sharp end of a machine shop, "stock" timing... is no longer stock. This needs to be compensated for as well.

[oldcorollas]

just check the "wiggle" on the dial gauge...
lift IS important, as at the beginning of the lobe, the lift is veyr small compared to the angle it moves.. so if you have a shit gauge, you could be 5 or 10deg out.

would it not be better to use say, 50thou measurements, and then find the lobe centre? or are the ramps assymetric?

[oldeskewltoy]

I over stated... yes lift is important.... but with the shaved head/block, cam timing is off. My first goal is to find the corrected cam timing, Once there... I know they will be close... and so they can be adjusted while on the dyno


btw... I found this in my pile of crap files....

Bluetop cam timing events
Intake Opens: 9 BTDC
Intake Closes: 51 ABDC
Exhaust Opens: 51 BBDC
Exhaust Closes: 9 ATDC

Redtop cam timing events are in the AE92 4AGE engine build info from the Bible

Redtop cam timing events
Intake Opens: 8 BTDC
Intake Closes: 44 ABDC
Exhaust Opens: 47 BBDC
Exhaust Closes: 5 ATDC

[oldcorollas]

good luck measuring those timing events at 1 thou lift

[amichie]

If those figures are at 1 thou lift then it must be a camshaft for a tractor.

[oldcorollas]

If those figures are at 1 thou lift then it must be a camshaft for a tractor.

why is that?
232 or 240deg advertised duration seems about normal for a stock car?... certainly not going to be 240@50thou