silvertop 20v to turbo

[staticcelica]

i am wanting to get a 20v an turbo it wanting to know what kind of work is involved i heard silvertop is better then the black top for this has it has slightly stronger internals. wanting to aim for around 250kw at motor...

its going into a TA22

[foamy]

With stock internals 7-8psi is about as much boost as you can run. Bigger injectors, a turbo, custom manifold, intercooler, programmable ECU, oil feed and return lines, bov, wastegate, bigger fuel pump, might be good to use some ARP studs, better head gasket....a big list

If your willing to spend the money it might be worthwhile using a GZE bottom end and a silvertop head (make use of those ITB's). That way you won't have to worry so much about breaking something and can probably run boost closer to 12psi.

[senn]

250kw @ the motor is a LOT for an NA motor w/ low boost turbo.
If you're chasing big numbers, and don't want to go the gze route, you're probably going to need forged internals, strong rods, not to mention all the other stuff listed here.
The video that got posted in AW11 anon is a 20v running 6 pound with supporting bits (vvti disconnected tho) and it was only making 110kW @ the wheels.. (roughly 147kw @ the fly)

The gze has the forgies + thick rods from factory, so if it was me, that'd be what i'd use.

[staticcelica]

okay then so i shall start looking for a 4AGZE then thanks for your help boys... what numbers could be had from a 4agze?

also where to get one in brisbane... or happy to get it posted.

[foamy]

With 12psi of boost might be looking around 200kW +...depending on what other work you do, quality and size of the turbo, etc.

[Harreh]

With 12psi of boost might be looking around 200kW +...depending on what other work you do, quality and size of the turbo, etc.

Whats the engine made out of? Hopes and dreams.

[foamy]

Whats the engine made out of? Hopes and dreams.

I did say depending on what other work is done...12psi, decent turbo, and some bigger cams would get pretty close. Well at the flywheel anyway...

EDIT:

Maybe not lol, might be closer to 175kw...eh all depends on the work

[mattysshop]

on all accounts the NA engines i've seen go through my mates workshop (for the fabrication only) pretty much double the power on 5-6psi..

few examples that spring to mind..
charade 1.3l before 62hp, after 118hp
1g-fe is200 before 112hp after 198hp (car has been running for 3 years, and going for a 1 bar tune soon it's with a new owner so i'm not sure when)
even a G18de pulsar (what ever the engine is called) made somthing like 124kw @ the wheels on 6 psi, and it struggled to make 70kw with extractors, intake etc etc before hand..

it all comes down to the tune, really... if you have a good manifold, good cooler setup, and aftermarket ecu you should be able to double the 80-90kw a the wheels that a 20v typically makes..

i'd be happy to give you the details of my mates fabrication shop if you would like an idea on manifold, piping etc etc..

[mattysshop]

i see alot of the 4a myths are still out there...

the silver top 20v's have the same bottom ends as GZE crank/rod wise.. eg, AE101 GZE, same rods and crank as AE101 silver top 20v... the black top as the thinner rods, but the same crank, just balanced with the lighter internals..

[Cuzzo]

The pistons are the main problem.

And btw stock smallport head / bigport bottom on 15 psi will make around 150kw atrw.

small gze on 20psi will make around 200kw atrw.

200kw on a 20v on 12psi will NOT happen unless nitrous or race fuel is involved.

[Sam_Q]

the acl pistons give around 10:1 compression which is good for driveability and power. Or otherwise the ZE pistons as mentioned, I can't remember what I calculated they end up at, I think it was 9.3:1 or something.

[NME308]

the acl pistons give around 10:1 compression which is good for driveability and power. Or otherwise the ZE pistons as mentioned, I can't remember what I calculated they end up at, I think it was 9.3:1 or something.

Old mate staticcelica didn't specify if this was purely a race engine, but 250kw from 1.6 liters of engine starting with 10:1 compression is going to need C16 or methanol for fuel if it is going to make the power. If you try to tune with pump fuel on an engine with those specs you'll have to remove so much timing to avoid detonation it wont make power anyhow!

Cheers,
Jason

[Sam_Q]

no you wont get 250kw but you will still make stacks of power with that compression ratio still. This is because the 20v chamber combined with the somewhat high stock overlap means that they can handle a lot of boost or compression. I am using 11:1 atmo with a fair bit of ignition timing and I know someone else who has these pistons in the combination I mention and he is doing well for himself with a T28 off an S15. I will try and get some more substantial figures for you as I don't like quoting hearsay.

I also better add that when the ZE pistons are used with the blacktop head the CR ends up at about 9:1

[NME308]

no you wont get 250kw but you will still make stacks of power with that compression ratio still. This is because the 20v chamber combined with the somewhat high stock overlap means that they can handle a lot of boost or compression. I am using 11:1 atmo with a fair bit of ignition timing and I know someone else who has these pistons in the combination I mention and he is doing well for himself with a T28 off an S15. I will try and get some more substantial figures for you as I don't like quoting hearsay.

I also better add that when the ZE pistons are used with the blacktop head the CR ends up at about 9:1

Between you and I most people would be thrilled with exactly half the original 250KW asking figure in a TA22! I have absolutely no doubt the 10:1 comp motor with mild boost would turn the OP into a grinning idiot

I tend to shy away from high comp turbo motors for the street as they are much more unforgiving on the tune and at far higher risk of destruction from a bad batch of fuel etc... Yes it is done successfully by some, but I also personally know many who have grenaded high comp turbo combo's purely from ignorance and lack of mechanical sympathy. Same goes for high compression old school V8's on the street - drives fine mate just keeps eating head gaskets and bearings...

Cheers,
Jason

[Sam_Q]

Jason in regard to your first comment I couldn't agree more. So many people aim so high when they have no idea what they are getting themself into. Besides I drove an SR20 (unmodified engine) powered ae86 a short time ago which I would asusme would have a reasonably simular body weight and whenever it got on boost in second gear the 205 tyres would just spin.

Yes I agree hi comp engines are much more unforgiving. I would think though that 7 to 8psi with 98 octane fuel should still have a reasonably decent margin of error. But I admit it's only an educated guess and I don't have the direct experience.