W56 gearbox issue

[Matfew]

Hey everyone.

Had a problem with my hilux this morning. On way to work n was taking some pics of the area. VERY frosty morning here atm.

Anyways reversed up to take pic of a frozen damn and pushed clutch in as i was in reverse n wheels locked up. Thought mm weird. took pic n put car in Nuetral to get out and it was stuck in first gear.

Have had a bit of a play so far and i am stuck on construction site i was driving to atm. Have managed to get it out of first.

Now question is reverse now seems weird. When ya reverse there is a bad noise from gear box now n then. When i change into first and semi sticks again. As in when ya back in neutral after being in first it still half in. Car doesnt stall but ya can feel it want to move a tiny bit.

Rocked car back and forth with motor off in neutral and it seems to go away.


Any ideas. Might have to take the day off and limp it home (50kms slow ).

But some suggestions where to start will be great. Will rip box out tonight n take a look but any advice before i do.


Cheers
Matt

[Matfew]

ok lil update.

box is in bits on bench.

everything looks a1 inside. no damage to gears etc and oil was fine. nothing out of ordinary.

BUT the problem progressed a bit by time i got home.

If car was put in first gear it would grind n sometimes not engage properly. when clutch was let out it was like the gears didnt mesh and it wanted to move but made some nasty noise.

All other forward gears worked fine. No problems what so ever. I ended up driving home via freeway at 80kmh no problems.

Just dont use 1st gear lol or reverse.

Anyway after i pulled it all down I think i found the problem. From what i can find in FSM's there is a needle roller bearing that joins the input shaft with the output shaft right after where first gear mounts. inside that sycro drum sort of thing is where this bearing is. When i hold it all upright and tight and try turn the shafts while its in neutral there is alot of resistance that appears to be from that area.

Can anyone give more advice. I cant pull it apart futher with the tools i have. Need a proper gear puller to get 5th gear off to remove bottom shaft and seperate input n output shafts.

anything at all that would be great.

Thanks
matt

[Celica RA45]

it could be your clutch or master cylinder playing up and this will cause the crunching going into gears if master or slave is leaking

[Matfew]

nope clutch wont cause it to jam into reverse AND 1st gear at same time

And after the box is on workbench in bits and found problems with input shaft bearing i think thats prolly it. but i just dont know what is actually inside this bit.

the bit i talking about is there selector fork for 1st n 2nd sits aroudn the shifting drum.

[Dazza]

The synchro drum where the input and output shafts meet is the 3rd 4th synchro drum. 1st and 2nd is back near 5th gear. Reverse gear works when the reverse idler gear is pushed across so it runs on the 1st 2nd synchro drum.
I would be looking at the selector forks to fix your problem. it could be a cracked and bent fork or a roll pin broken that goes through the fork to fix it to the selector shaft.

[Matfew]

ahh ok my bad. i thought it was 1st n 2nd.

hopefully is something easy like this.

will update in the morning.

[Matfew]

ok i pulled the shift forks out and cant find a thing wrong with them. no fractures i can see. no marks out of the norm at all.

Put it back together and now i bloody thing seems fine.

I have only put the front case back on and tested all shifting etc. Seems fine.

Could it of been something jammed and when i pulled it all out has loosened up and come good??

I really hope so lol cant afford another box right at this stage.

[allencr]

Put it back together and now i bloody thing seems fine.
Could it of been something jammed and when i pulled it all out has loosened up and come good??
.

No, nothing in a trans with very hard metal parts & close tolerances just disappears all by it self.
These symptoms are all over the place, and were only a bit consistent for a dragging clutch.
Good luck.

[Matfew]

ok.

let me clear some of it up.

the issue started while reversing the car up. I took foot off throttle and all of a sudden back wheels locked up.
car stalled.

i tried to start it again while the stick in neutral position. car was jammed in first gear. if i tried for any other gear it would lock the gearobx up and stall motor or slip clutch.

i gave gearstick a good whack and it come outta gear. tried first again but was like it didnt re-engage properly. was a grinding gear noise from the box.

try reverse and it was totally locked. car wouldnt move n stallled motor as above.

I managed to ger car out of first and drove it home. 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th all worked flawlessly. no problem. no clutch drag etc etc.

Pulled box out of car. put on bench and engaged first gear. while turning the input shaft i could stop output shaft and get that same grinding feeling as above in first gear.

SO pulled box apart as far as i could without bearing and gears pulled off.

Pulled 1st/2nd selector shaft and fork out to check them out. No visible problems at all.

Put it back together and now it TESTS fine on the bench. When i say test i mean i have it back together except for the extension housing and testing by pushing/pulling the selector shafts.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th AND reverse all engage the shaft properly and no grinding slipping etc at all now.


I not sure about putting it back in just yet. Its a real PITA to get in and out but i guess that is the only way to really try it out.

Cheers
Matt

[Dazza]

How sloppy is your gearlever? If it is worn you mught be picking up 2 gears at once. Also did you check the detent springs and balls that hold the selector shafts in gear. You need a torx bit to unscrew the plugs from the side of the gearbox sandwich plate. A broken detent spring could let it slip into gear by itself but usually it will jump out of gear.

[Matfew]

shifter was what i would call perfect. car has 130,000kms on it. not a great deal for these cars.

Is very weird. I did have the spring for 1st gear out and it wasnt broken. had to take that out to get the shift rod out.

going to hook up something to input tomorrow n try shift through gears and turn it at a decent speed see how it sounds before i try it back in car.

i really cant fault it now so i not sure what happened.

is it possible even remotely, that the shifter slipped when i was in reverse and didnt disengage reverse properly. that would explain why first was playing up when i drove home and all other gears were perfect.

i think i am only going to have to try it n see.

[Dazza]

The only other thing i can think of is that the shifter is hitting the floor or console if you have one so it is not changing out of gear fully. This would only happen if you had a broken engine or gearbox mount. I just had another thought. I wonder if the gearbox oil was too thick. Some of the later Toyota gearboxes use oil that looks more like engine oil than gearbox oil. I wont use any thicker than 80W oil in gearboxes because if i use thicker oil down here in the winter the gearbox will crunch on every gearchange until the oil warms up.

[allencr]

To prevent 2 gears at once, all the selector shafts have a notch at neutral and a slug/ball, not spring loaded, in-between them that will only allow one shaft at a time to move when the adjoining shafts are at neutral.
I don't ever think any have ever actually worn out in any trans, only been left out when a trans is re-assembled. Sorry, I got no real clue. Good luck.