1GGTE, single turbo + supercharger, Twincharging help

[BumbleBee]

Hi all,

I've come up with a crazy idea, I want to supercharge and turbocharge my 1GGTE. To cut a long story short, i have a 1GGTE in my 4runner and i want more torque. Has this ever been done before?

Here are a list of my current of mods:
Garret GT2871R single turbo conversion
7MGTE injectors
Mictrotech ECU
Coil pack conversion
front mount intercooler
3" exhaust
etc etc

So what problems am i going to run into with a supercharger and turbo.

I can source all the superchargering equipment at a low cost from a 1GGZE, it will all bolt up very easily.
lets here your thoughts

cheers
Kris

[roadsailing]

this is not that crazy an idea at all.

The simplest and best way to do this is just blow the turbo into the supercharger, you can do parallel systems but they tend to be more complex and expensive.

What supercharger are you planning on using?

[Duk]

Twin-charging has been done successfully quite a few times on the 4AGZE's, so applying the same principle to other engines isn't hard, just a matter of room and quality of mounting (alignment of pulleys and rigidity of mounts).
A 1GGZE engine would provide the necessary supercharger, mount and pulleys as well as anything that is particular to them for clearance of the SC.
Turbo selection tends to be based on thinking of the a bigger engine running low boost than much more. Think bigger turbine AR ratio to keep back pressure lower to gain top end performance.
The conventional approach is air filter>airflow meter (if used)>turbo>throttle body>supercharger>intercooler>inlet manifold. Idealy an intercooler would be used between the turbo and supercharger, but space can be an issue.

My twincharged AW11 had (in pieces for more work) heaps of mid range grunt. Top end wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but I blame that more on crap exhaust manifold design (log type), a struggling ignition system, to much pre-turbo pipe work (tho I've never tested that) and the shit location of the intercooler.

[JustenGT8]

The first problem and only problem i can think of is the air flow. When the supercharger is on boost and the turbo is NOT on boost, the air flow will take the path of least resistance which will push the air into the turbo rather than fourcing it into the inlet manifold.

lets here your thoughts

cheers
Kris

LOL, if that's all you can think of then start fabricating away as you have it sorted

As already said, turbo>TB>SC>IC>engine. No lag, torque galore, fun times.

Sizing everything is a bit of a black art and the fabrication won't be cheap.

Being a V8 my setup ran turbo>FMIC>TB>SC, but i ran WI as well so inlet temps weren't horrendous...not great though as SC seem to make fantastic heaters despite their rated efficiencies?

Keen to see how a 1G will perform. There's a TRD version around that's twin charged but it's never been run since it turned up that i'm aware of?

[BumbleBee]

thanks for your input everyone. I can do all the fabricationwork myself, so cost will not be an issue.

Given that the 1GGZE came out with a supercharger, i will use all the brackets and pulleys off that setup to make mine work, i think it could be done at a very low cost.

Will i need some sort of Bypass valve on the supercharger? When its out of its effeciency range and the turbo takes over will i HAVE to bypass the supercharger? What have you done?

[roadsailing]

t
Will i need some sort of Bypass valve on the supercharger? When its out of its effeciency range and the turbo takes over will i HAVE to bypass the supercharger? What have you done?

no, superchargers don't work like that but the SC14 might be too small all the same.

I know "logically" you think the supercharger will be a restriction (i used to think it would be too) but it is a volume device, not a pressure device.

[JustenGT8]

no, superchargers don't work like that but the SC14 might be too small all the same.

I know "logically" you think the supercharger will be a restriction (i used to think it would be too) but it is a volume device, not a pressure device.

Yup man speaks truth. SC feeds more air than the engine can use and if it's fed pressurised air then all the better. SC is only a restriction when it's too small for the engine it's on. The SC14 will be OK but an M90 would be awesome....expensive to fit whereas the SC14 will be OEM easy.

[81hilux09]

when using brackets from the 1ggze to yours, i know the alt & pwr steer have different positions, you might have to get all brackets and possibly new pwr steering lines as the 1gz sits ontop of where yours is..

[BumbleBee]

when using brackets from the 1ggze to yours, i know the alt & pwr steer have different positions, you might have to get all brackets and possibly new pwr steering lines as the 1gz sits ontop of where yours is..

None of this will be an issue for me because I'm not running a/c. i have a nice large open space waiting for the supercharger to fit The Alternator Might require a very small amount of modification if the charger pipes hit it.

[Rota]

I have been considering this for a while on my 1ggte 4wd hilux aswell. Would be awesome to see it done.
I had an AVO450 on mine for a while but it was too laggy out 4 wheel driving. So i temporarily have a standard wrx turbo on mine atm, it has alot less power but it has about 10x better response.

Would love to have a 1ggze supercharger and the AVO450 back on there.

It would be pretty tight in the hilux/4runner engine bay though.

[briney]

i wouldn't sweat blowing through the supercharger. if you calculate out the pressure ratios, the supercharger with a positive pressure at the inlet might end up working like it's pumping 5-ish psi when it's really pumping 20. as for sizing the exhaust housing, how much power does a stock 1ggze make ? does it behave like a 3 or 3.5 litre engine ?

[mullett]

Got a dyno plot for that turbo? I'd be keen to know when you're getting boost/hitting ful boost with that turbo

-RM

[ra23celica]

There is a picture of a twin-charged 1G-GTZE somewhere on the 'net. I will hunt around for it. One of the trickier things will be getting your engine management system to fuel it properly, particularly at any 'changeover point' between supercharged air and the turbocharged air coming in, if you decide to plumb these separately. Obviously, sudden lean conditions can equal 'boom'. VW sold a 1.4l twin charged Golf a couple of years ago. I think they may have had some sort of variable vane where the two air paths met, and /or they were measuring the air after the SC and Turbo and just after the air filter as commonly found. It would be worth having a look at what they did.

[JustenGT8]

There is a picture of a twin-charged 1G-GTZE somewhere on the 'net. I will hunt around for it. One of the trickier things will be getting your engine management system to fuel it properly, particularly at any 'changeover point' between supercharged air and the turbocharged air coming in, if you decide to plumb these separately. Obviously, sudden lean conditions can equal 'boom'. VW sold a 1.4l twin charged Golf a couple of years ago. I think they may have had some sort of variable vane where the two air paths met, and /or they were measuring the air after the SC and Turbo and just after the air filter as commonly found. It would be worth having a look at what they did.

No it wouldn't Just run the turbo thru the SC...job done