Crank shaft install 4age 20v silvertop

[ArubaAe86]

Hi, I'm assembling my 4age silvertop engine using ACL race bearing and thrust washers. After I torque the crank shaft caps, the crank shaft doesn't turn by hand, I then applied some 30w oil on the bearings and turned it with a wrench, it turns smoothly but not by hand. Without the thrust washers it will turn smooth by hand.
My question is, is this normal or there is something wrong with the thrust washers?
Or after the engine brakes in will all fit together?

Thank in advance for any help.

[oldeskewltoy]

not being there I can't tell for sure.... BUT what I do know is the crank should spin relatively freely.

Did you put the thrust bearings in with the grooves facing the crankshaft??

[ArubaAe86]

not being there I can't tell for sure.... BUT what I do know is the crank should spin relatively freely.

Did you put the thrust bearings in with the grooves facing the crankshaft??

Yes I put the thrust bearings in with the grooves facing the counter weights of the crankshaft. Strange when I turn it with a wrench and a little oil on the bearings it turns relatively free.

[3jcelica]

It should sping really freely, either your bearing caps (both main and rod) are around the wrong way, or you bearing clearence is too tight

[oldeskewltoy]

crank w/o rods should spin freely... or relatively so. With rods no way.... because rods are attached to pistons - drag on cylinders. When @ TDC ,or BDC there will be minmal drag since a certain amount @ either end doesn't move the pistons

[dangdang]

What are you running? Standard crank and std size shells? Or has the crank been ground and your using oversize shells?

I always check clearances on assembly with plasti gauge, new bearing shells can get misboxed and even miss stamped!

Check with plastiguage and if all the mains come up good then also check your end float.

But yes as said you should be able to grab the snout of the crank firmly with one hand and turn smoothly.

I will have a look after work but I'm certain in the 4a manual there is actually a drag measurement you can check by turning with a torque wrench on the snout.

[3jcelica]

oldskewltoy,

yes I should clarify, when I say spin freely I mean grab the crank snout and turn easily by hand (as dangdang suggests) with or without rods/pistons installed, no tools should be used to turn the motor over! if you are using tools you are putting undue stress on components.


Although with out the rods it may well keep turning a little. It sounds to me like bearing too tight or rod caps around the wrong way.

Roger

[dangdang]

If your using the ACL race series shells the grooved side should be to the block, and I would use something more than motor oil for assembly, moly lube is the go.

[ArubaAe86]

What are you running? Standard crank and std size shells? Or has the crank been ground and your using oversize shells?

I always check clearances on assembly with plasti gauge, new bearing shells can get misboxed and even miss stamped!

Check with plastiguage and if all the mains come up good then also check your end float.

But yes as said you should be able to grab the snout of the crank firmly with one hand and turn smoothly.

I will have a look after work but I'm certain in the 4a manual there is actually a drag measurement you can check by turning with a torque wrench on the snout.

Hi dangdang, thanks for the reply. Yes I'm running standard crank and standard shells from ACL race series. The whole block has been blue printed, but I think they did not check the thrust washers. The friction is mostly at the thrust washers.

[ArubaAe86]

oldskewltoy,

yes I should clarify, when I say spin freely I mean grab the crank snout and turn easily by hand (as dangdang suggests) with or without rods/pistons installed, no tools should be used to turn the motor over! if you are using tools you are putting undue stress on components.


Although with out the rods it may well keep turning a little. It sounds to me like bearing too tight or rod caps around the wrong way.

Roger

Hi, 3jcelica thanks for the reply. The crank right now is turned with a wrench without the rods and pistons. Friction is mostly at the center where the thrust washers are. without the thrust washers it will turn smoothly. I have ARP studs installed and torqued at 80 ft/lb When I put some oil on the main bearings it will turn only smoothly with a wrench.

[ArubaAe86]

If your using the ACL race series shells the grooved side should be to the block, and I would use something more than motor oil for assembly, moly lube is the go.

Hi, dangdang. So you mean the thrust washer grooves should grasp at the counter weights of the crank shaft?

[dangdang]

The grooved side of the thrust bearings should be towards the cranks thrust face.

I was mentioning the main bearings when I spoke above.

Measuring the thrust as I mentioned above is one way of ascertaining the thrust bearing clearances.

Are the thrust bearings stamped STD?

They sound like the odd kick in the mix if as you say all seems fine without them fitted.

Pics would help if you have them.

[ArubaAe86]

The grooved side of the thrust bearings should be towards the cranks thrust face.

I was mentioning the main bearings when I spoke above.

Measuring the thrust as I mentioned above is one way of ascertaining the thrust bearing clearances.

Are the thrust bearings stamped STD?

They sound like the odd kick in the mix if as you say all seems fine without them fitted.

Pics would help if you have them.

The thrust bearings are stamped STD on them. I would check later after work if i can take pictures.

[oldeskewltoy]

Have you done what the FSM says for checking end play?

Do you still have the original set of thrust bearings? What happens if you install those? What is the end play now??

[ArubaAe86]

Have you done what the FSM says for checking end play?

Do you still have the original set of thrust bearings? What happens if you install those? What is the end play now??

Right now there is almost no endplay do to the thrust washers. Later after work I will check what will happen when I put in the old ones back.