Turbo 1ZZ-FE opinions

[Lambolica]

I've been doing a little research into the subject of turboing the 1zz-fe of late. By the looks of it the guys in the U.S do it quite regularly with some success and there are a few companies over there offering "Bolt on" Packages which look interesting.

What I'm looking for is the possibility of extracting double the power out of the engine (or close there to) but keep thing within the bounds of saftey (boost wise)

Is the engine (and gearboxes commonly used) up to this kind of treatment from factory?

I've read a great deal of stories revolving around engine failures but alot tend to be from overrevving or running lean.

So Stock 1zz-fe = 103kw
1ZZ-FE + bolt on package ~ 200kw? Most of these packages revolve around no more than 8 psi, GT28 turbo and piggyback. The U.S don't seem to have the ECU resources that Aust does so what computers could control this (without going standalone)?

Cheers
Simon

[thechuckster]

add tuning to suit hi-compression with a turbo.

is there a TRD super-charger kit?

interesting read on the engine: http://www.spyderchat.com/1zzfe.pdf (500k PDF)

[Lambolica]

Nice Article, However not much mention of Increased strength of Cylinderr bores in it which concerns me a little. the walls are thin between cylinders.



Yes I was illuding to Tuning, the U.S guys can get around the 230hp mark using 7-8 psi
Still just a little shy of what I'd like to see it make (270hp) I't the VVTi bit that seems to have them buggered. most go for power FC's or E-manage. I wonder if the E-manage could be tuned for a better result. with out going over board cost wise.

I haven't seen a TRD S/C listed on any TRD sites but I keep comming accross references to it. afe S/C 1ZZ seem to make the 200hp but not much more

[mullett]

Plenty of australian ECUs will run the VVTi quite happily as far as I know, but what else is the ECU connected to? Lots of new cars can be a real pain to remove the ECU from...

RM.

[Lambolica]

Yes which is Why I'm looking for a Piggy back style of thing that will achieve the results I'm after. The E-manage seems to be getting good results However I'm unsure of how this effects the VVti.

Currently I'm looking for the answer of will the bottom end handle double the power....

[S.W.A.M.I.]

Yes which is Why I'm looking for a Piggy back style of thing that will achieve the results I'm after. The E-manage seems to be getting good results However I'm unsure of how this effects the VVti.

Currently I'm looking for the answer of will the bottom end handle double the power....

why are you trying to be cheap?
what is wrong with 230WHP (a 100hp increase) ?
what is the purpose of having 270hp?
i really dont understand what your are trying to achieve other than keeping cost low & getting 15%more power than anyone else in the world with a bolt-on kit.

The reality is amazing power will require a healthy sum of preperation & money.......you have three choices.......
#1: accept the high cost of the goals you are trying to achieve
#2: accept the gains possible with the funds you are willing to devote to the porject
#3: play super tuner and blow it up then do it over spending double, or give up and move on.(what some ppl would call wasting time and money)

[The Witzl]

Simon,

get in touch with "JP" on www.twincam.org/forums.... he's doing a fair bit of work on turbocharging 1ZZ-FE engines at the moment, even making his own turbo manifolds and stuff.

From what he's told me, the bottom end is capable of the power you want, but the rods dont seem to like RPM.

THere's no reason why you cant do it really

[Lambolica]

why are you trying to be cheap?

Who said anything about being cheap?

what is wrong with 230WHP (a 100hp increase) ?
what is the purpose of having 270hp?

For the purpose of the Question double the power is the target. Back in the day Toyota engines were renown for the bottom ends coping with double the factory power. the question is with modern engine technology moving towards lighter more effecient engines does this still stand true?

i really dont understand what your are trying to achieve other than keeping cost low & getting 15%more power than anyone else in the world with a bolt-on kit.?

Cost hasn't entered the equasion, and yes I'm looking for more than the "bolt-on" kits. The U.S market much like the Japanese market revolves around "bolt on" packages with the promise of attaining a certain level of power. From a few thing I have seen lately people in Australia are more inclinded to Develop a bolt on kit and associated support and surpass the off the shelf bolt on power by going back to basics with engine principals and tuning.
The future of engine conversions is going to be based around todays engines so I'm simply looking forward towards what can be done with todays engines.

The reality is amazing power will require a healthy sum of preperation & money.......you have three choices.......
#1: accept the high cost of the goals you are trying to achieve
#2: accept the gains possible with the funds you are willing to devote to the porject
#3: play super tuner and blow it up then do it over spending double, or give up and move on.(what some ppl would call wasting time and money)

This is not in question. but again money hasn't entered the equasion. Based on Toyota engines i don't think this is amazing power either.

Karl.... cheers for that, I'll look into it further.....

[Billzilla]

Plenty of australian ECUs will run the VVTi quite happily as far as I know, but what else is the ECU connected to? Lots of new cars can be a real pain to remove the ECU from...

RM.

Only the Motec M400/600/800 can at the moment.
Not sure about the Autronic, it might be able to as wel but that's all there is right now.

[The Witzl]

i'm pretty sure the Autronic SM4 can do vvti as well. Not 100%, but pretty confident that it does.

I think people are still getting confused between VVT and VVTi. There is quite a big difference.

[Lambolica]

The 1zz has the variable cam on the intake only, the 2zz has both in take and exhaust lift.

The only issue with going full aftermarket ECU would be retaining the triptronic gearbox setup on the celicas and the like.

[Billzilla]

The 1zz has the variable cam on the intake only, the 2zz has both in take and exhaust lift.

The only issue with going full aftermarket ECU would be retaining the triptronic gearbox setup on the celicas and the like.

Again, the Motec's will control a Tiptronic-style gearbox.

[Lambolica]

Ah that is interesting....

[psychofox]

The 1zz has the variable cam on the intake only, the 2zz has both in take and exhaust lift.

The 2ZZ has a variable cam gear on inlet cam only, the exhaust cam gear is fixed. It has Cam profile changing (the 'L' in VVTLi) on both cams. 1ZZ has only inlet cam phasing.

Nice steal on my photo earlier in the thread btw....that was a photo of a 2ZZ block, not a 1ZZ, they are a bit different. The 1ZZ has more meat between the cylinders than the 2ZZ as it has 3mm less cylinder bore (1ZZ 79mm vs 2ZZ 82mm) with the same bore spacing. The 1ZZ also uses traditional liners whereas the 2ZZ uses metal matrix liners.

As previously stated in the thread I could see the rods being an issue with this motor, it's only designed to spin to a 6200rpm redline, so it's not going to be the most overly engineered piece of kit in the first instance. Also, it's an open deck block, i'd say at super power levels you may need one of those block guards that sit in the water jacket like the honda guys use to stop the bores from moving around too much.

[S.W.A.M.I.]

If money isnt the issue, then I would suggest you dith the piggy back idea & go full management.
I would recommend a set of pistons, rods. injectors.
The output you are looking for should come around or just under 1bar of boost.

Back then toyota build engines with boost in mind, so getting double the output was only a matter of selecting the right mix of parts.
Todays engines are built with a different mind set for a broader range of use. The days of making double the factor output without going deep into the engine are long behind us.