Inner Tie Rod End Removal - How to do it?

[petergoudie]

Apart from owning a Toyota I also own a few non-Toyota cars. One of those is a 1985 Ford KC Laser that is , Mazda BP 323. I am trying to make this car reliable for my daughter as she is about to start some study about 400km away from home.

I want to replace one of the inner tie rod ends. It is locked somehow to the rack with a small spring steel roll pin. It is in a blind hole on the side of the rack. It appears to me that it is driven in hard until it deforms the tie rod thread.

Has anyone removed anything like this?

The store I purchased the replacement inner tie rod from said to put a spanner on it and hit it hard, I guess to shear the pin or push it up as the undamaged threads ride over it.

I'm a bit scared to do this especially as the reaction force will go through to the pinion as this is what stops the rack from rotating.

Can anyone help me with this?

I've been told to lock the new tie rod with Locktite.

Thanks.

[GT1978]

Are you sure there is a roll pin in there? Is it protruding so you can see the end? It might just be the breather hole. All my google search has turned up for Mazdas is a staked washer to prevent it from unwinding.

Glen

[petergoudie]

Unfortunately, yes. The workshop manual talks about both 'pins' and washers. I have the pins! An exploded parts diagram shows the pins.

Three steering racks were fitted on this model: Manual with constant gear ratio; Manual with variable ratio; power with variable ratio.

The tie rods are different on the power and manual racks plus the two manual racks are supposed to have different inner tie rods but everyone sells the same for both claiming there is no difference.

One of the problems is that the tie rod ball end slides into the rack outer housing tube on full lock. Any lock washer therefore has to be smaller than the rack end. In fact the washer you mention is a special cup shape that fits around the 24 hex nut on the end of the tie rod which is about 36mm outside diameter.

The second locking method, the pin is driven through the side of the rack and I guess bites into the threads and deforming them.

If I can upload some photos, you can see the roll pin.

Also, the washers are available on two months wait from Japan and everyone says just to use Loctite. I found a store in the US that says they have what I believe is the washer part number but they don't know what it looks like. In addition, I think the rack needs to be removed to crimp both side of the lock washer making loctite a good alternative.

As I said, any help would be appreciated.

[JDM hachi]

If it helps narrow the problem down, I'm pretty sure that kc lasers had the B6 engine fitted, BP came out in KF??? Are you sure the manual you have is the correct one?, i also think kc lasers were assembled in Australia, so the manual you have could also be different in this respect also.

matty.

[petergoudie]

Matty, my mother-in-law purchased the car new so I know a little about its history.

You are correct, it was assembled in Australia probably explaining why three racks were fitted. My guess is the cheaper manual ones were made here and the power steering imported. This car has a four-speed manual gearbox and 5-speed was an option. It is a B6 engine and build date is 11/85 (from compliance plate.)

The workshop manual is genuine Ford and printed in Australia. The print date is September 1985 and for the GL, Meteor and TX-3. We have the GL.

I'm not sure if you looked at the two photos labelled Roll Pin 1 & 2 but you can see the roll pin in the side of the rack. Unfortuneatly, like most workshop manuals they leave out parts that are significant to you but appear to be of no interest to the manufacturer like an explanation of the roll pins.

[lexsmaz]

Looks like a fun one to remove !! As you said i wouldnt be just wrenching on it as you mentioned the pinion is the main thing stopping it from turning ..

Sounds like your manual does not cover removal of the pin ?? i have never tried it but maybe tack weld a slide hammer bit onto the end of the roll pin a try tapping it out that way or even a self taper screwed into the very end of the roll pin & attach a slide hammer to that & try that way, but as you would realise a self taper screw etc will probably spread the pin & so probably not work to well ?? ..

The rack appears to a have at least one flat on it, so i suppose you could at last resort hold that & try undoing the nut on the tie rod via their flats & hopefully sheer the roll pin, but probably would be pretty hard to do & i personally wouldnt recomend it ...

I'm guessing once you remove the iner tie rod & want to use the roll pin method again, you do the inner tie rod end tight & then drill into the iner tie rod end thread through the hole in the rack & then drive the pin in, as just bashing the roll pin into a solid shaft is not going to do much in the way of retaing the pin & stopping the rack end from undoing ..

[petergoudie]

Thanks lexamaz. Everything in your last paragraph is what I'm trying to understand. Also, I expect that to drill the hole requires the rack to be removed, which I don't want to do at this time.

There are two flats on the rack but their width is less than the thickness of a spanner - I tried this. I will have to grind the face of the spanner down.

The two flats are there for the alternative cupped washer locking method. The six flats of the washer fit on the tie rod hex and then it is crimped into the rack flats which incidentally, I think requires the rack to be removed.

I should have mentioned, the pin does not go through to the other flat. I checked this too.

I've worked indirectly in the motor trade most of my career and I've spoken to spare parts importers who say the Japanese don't seem to want to supply spare parts but whole assemblies. This might be an example of that.

[lexsmaz]

If you cant get to the pin etc easily as you mentioned, it will probably be easier in the long run to remove the rack ..

Often grinding down spanners as you mentioned are the joys of the trade & if you go that way as you can see you will need to grind down the head of the roll pin a bit too ..

You had mentioned that the pin went into a blind hole, hence me not just saying drive it through & why you obviously did not do it yourself ..

Was the part ever listed as a spare through a Ford dealership, if it wasnt that will tell you wether it was never meant to come part ..

If all else fails it might be easier to get a good rack from the wreckers ?

Good luck ..

Rob ..

[petergoudie]

I just made a few measurements. I put a paper clip down the inside of the roll pin to check its depth.

The roll pin appears to be about 4mm long in its blind hole.

The inner tie rod thread is 14mm.

The across the flats of the steering rack tube is 19mm.

The wall thickness between the thread and flat is (19-14)/2 = 2.5mm.

This means the pin goes into the tie rod thread 1.5mm which is probably not much more than the thread depth.

[lexsmaz]

Imteresting doesnt appear to be much depth, but i'm quessing there might be some swarf etc on the inside of the roll pin that your paper clip is picking up on as i would think the pin would / should go further into the rack than just the depth of the thread, not a very secure way in my eyes of locking a component ..

Have you tried ringing a steering place that reconditions steering boxes & racks etc & asking them about the pin ..

[petergoudie]

I tried both a thick needle and a paper clip to measure the depth and I don't think swarf stopped it.

In regard to the depth, I presume the pin is just hammered in until it stops which will be the bottom of the thread.

You might have missed some of what I mentioned above but yes I've tried a few steering places in NSW and Victoria plus the Australian importer of the replacement tie rods I purchased. As I said above, if any of the steering places are forthcoming with any information they say to just wind off the rod.

Notwithstanding the above, since my earlier post this morning I've just travelled about 50km on a few errands. One of the places I visited was were I purchased the repacement rods and this time I took a photo with me.

I was told to get a spanner with a piece of pipe on the end and snap the pin off. In addition, I was told that afterwards I might have to retap the hole because sometimes the threads get damaged winding it out.

Also, my supplier said some of the late Holdens & Fords just punch the rack so it jambs on the rod thread - what terrible design.

[GT1978]

One thing I have found people trying for larger roll pins in a blind hole is old pilot bearing removal technique (poke gease down centre and hammer a free moving pin punch in to create pressure behind). Not sure if you want / can try this technique as there are threads at the bottom. Looks to be a very small roll pin.
Maybe a small screw from the battery compartment of a kids toy and a set of side cutters to pry it up. I'm guessing you only need to raise it up 1-2mm to clear the threads.

Glen

[petergoudie]

Yes, I will try a small self-tapping screw first.

The outside diameter of the pin is at a guess about 3.5mm or possibly 4mm.

[ToyTA22]

I have seen my mechanic drill those pins out using slow speed air drill and plenty of lube, using tungsten tipped drill i.e ones with gold coloured tip.

[petergoudie]

I had a few goes to remove the pin, no of which worked.

As I said, the pin is about 3.5mm diameter and only about 4mm long. It is in a blind hole and extends through the rack into the tie rod threads about 1.5mm.

The bore of the spring pin is less than 1.5mm. I found a knitting needle that was 1.4mm diameter and pushed some grease into the bore, hoping I could force the pin out the same as a flywheel spigot bearing. That was a failure because everything is too small.

I tried to remove it with just a spanner but there is too much force required and I can't afford at this stage to damage the rack pinion. A few taps with a wood mallet didn't do anything.

I am running out of time as my daughter will take the car away in a few days. I therefore have decided to leave it until the next semester break.

In the mean time, via ebay I ordered some 1mm diamond coated grinding bits and I'll look for an ebay high speed grinder. I will have to remove the rack and will try to grind a grove inside the 1.4mm pin bore and snap the pin in two.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?