clutch install, won't disengage

[illdrift]

I purchased a second hand os giken twin plate for the v160, with a push/pull kit.

After installing everything, i can't seem to get the clutch to disengage to put the car in gear, with the engine is running.

I had to create a rod for the slave cylinder, so i tried putting in a longer rod, such that the throw out bearing sits right next to the pressure plate teeth.

I could view the pressure plate being pressed upon as a friend operating the clutch pedal, so it's not a hydraulic issue.

I then adjusted the pedal and the rod for the master cylinder. I now have the maximum movement from the pedal, and its firm the whole length of travel.

Still no success, so I've pulled off the gearbox again. After looking over the plates, there's only one possible way to install the clutch discs and pressure plates, so I don't see this as a cause.

I'm worried that I could potentially press the throwout bearing too far into the pressure plate and cause damage, but I suppose I still may not be getting enough movement into the pressure plate. The fingers were almost sitting flush with the pedal pressed, and this was before I added more travel to the pedal.

Looking at the install instructions, i didn't follow the exact order/specs for the bolts around the pressure plate, but finger tightened, and then tightened the bolts in opposite order going around the circle. I doubt this was the cause



Help

[japlish]

sounds like you havnt bled the clutch enough, i had the same problem with my r154 in my cressida and ended up still having a little air in my line.....how did you bleed it?

[illdrift]

Release valve, pedal to the floor, close valve, pedal up, repeat. I didn't use a hose on the bleeder nipple, just kept going til a steady stream of fluid was coming out. With the gbox inspection covers off, you can see the throwout bearing moving into the pressure plate, so i assume that would not be a cause.

You think that's reducing the fork movement? I can try bleeding again with a clear hose on the nipple

[japlish]

put a hose on the nipple, with the valve closed pump the pedal 6-7 times then while holding it down release the bleeder for a second or so then close it, rinse and repeat 5 or 6 times, thats what i ended up doing and it fixed the problem.

[old_mr2]

Put the end of the hose into a jar of fluid. This will stop any air being drawn back through.

[allencr]

Release bearing is moving about 10mm & pedal is firm, not spongy? Then it's not a problem.
Disks straight, little to no run-out?

Looking at the install instructions, i didn't follow the exact order/specs for the bolts around the pressure plate, but finger tightened, and then tightened the bolts in opposite order going around the circle. I doubt this was the cause

You tightened one bolt fully, all the way down tight against its spring while all the others were still finger tight with about 10mm to go?

Nothing with more then one bolt should ever be tightened fully, one by one instead of alternating, criss-cross in multiple steps to take it down evenly. Especially something with a big spring like this.

[illdrift]

I re-installed the gearbox, did the pressure plate nuts as described above, and bled the slave cylinder as per above instructions.

I also noticed there's 2 sets of slots for the plates to slide into the flywheel, so i tried alternating them.

I thought it was going to work, while the car was on stands i started it up, got it in gear and the wheel turned as i released the clutch (open diff might not have shown the clutch still locking on the opposite wheel).


Let the car down and tried to test drive, it's really difficult to get into gear. You can kinda feel where the clutch locks within the first 2 inches of pedal travel, but the shifting was really rough compared to stock. I drove around the block few times, needed to rev match to shift and downshifting was difficult. When i stopped at home 5 mins later, i could no longer get the car in gear


Kinda stumped, you can tell when the clutch loses it's grip, but there still seems to be a load on the gearbox spline and you can't shift gears

edit:
While I remember - i started the car, was difficult to shift but got it into reverse, car wasn't really dragging so clutch wasn't gripping, as i let the pedal up until the last 2 inches, then the clutch would engage and start moving the car backwards. So it was kind of working for a bit.

[lexsmaz]

I'm guessing there could be 2 reasons, one is the pressure plate is No good & is actually not releasing evenly & fully, cracked diaphragm etc could be the fault or even buckled clutch discs, did you check to see that the clutch disc's slide smoothly on the input shaft spline on the gearbox too, the tell tale for any of the above faults is to turn off the car select say first gear with your foot on the floor start up the car & then very slowly release the clutch pedal & take note how much you have to move the pedal to get the engine to start to bog down, if you move the pedal quite a bit without much difference I would say the pressure plate is no good or either of the other 2 issues : ie buckled clutch plates or very sticky clutch plate splines on the input shaft ..

The other fault that it could be is there is to much crush on the clutch plates & the release bearing / pressure plate does not have enough travel to disengage the clutch plates .. When you installed the clutch with the pressure plate bolts just finger tight did you happen to see how much gap there was between the flywheel surface & the pressure plate housing, from past experience & memory I would be aiming for around 5mm or so, if you have a big gap that the bolts need to pull up the clutch in most cases will not release, no matter what you do .. Is the flywheel stepped ?? Are you using your old flywheel on the twin plate clutch set up or did the clutch come with the flywheel ?? If there is to much crush the tell tale is as soon as you start to release your foot off the floor the engine will start to bog down as the clutch bites ..

[illdrift]

It came with the flywheel. I had a look at the plates with the clutch pedal pressed to the floor.

If you have a look at this pic

http://www.forgedperformance.com/sto...es/T/TR2CD.jpg

And i'll call them in order, diaphragm, plate 1, clutch 1, plate 2, clutch 2, flywheel.

plate 2 and clutch 2 are quite loose, the plate can budge a little bit and the clutch disc spins freely

plate 1 and clutch 1 can be moved, but the clutch disc has a tendency to press against the 1st plate, towards the diaphragm. They can move around, and spin the disc, it just has a tendency to press back against the 1st plate, unlike how the second plate/clutch remain free.

After I was poking around with a screwdriver, seeing what would move freely, i started the car, on start wouldn't go in gear but a few seconds later it would, and then i could change between gears reasonably freely. I left the car running, dropped it off jack stands, and a couple mins later when i wanted to test drive, I could no longer get it in gear (clutch plate is ALWAYS gripping, can't even start it in gear with clutch to the floor - the car just keeps dragging forward).

So that would mean 1st clutch plate might be buckled or something?

[lexsmaz]

Hard to know for sure what the cause is ..

I didn't realise it had a clutch type basket, the slots in the cage do they have any wear marks or burrs on the side of the slots & are the tangs on the metal plates smooth on the edges as if there is any wear on either items it will cause the clutch to stick / catch & not release properly

Strange that you said it got worse when you dropped it on the ground, possibly when it was in the air the back wheels weren't completely stopped ??

[dnegative]

I purchased a second hand os giken twin plate for the v160, with a push/pull kit.

Who did you buy it off and why were they selling?

[allencr]

So that would mean 1st clutch plate might be buckled or something?

Yes, check its run out, how it slides on the input shaft splines & their condition.
Hang the weight of the trans off the the 1st plate when installing?

[illdrift]

Finally got some time to work on it further

One time, plate 2 appeared to be stuck inside a little tab indent on the flywheel sleets (locking clutch disc 2). Plate 1 is worn and atleast a mm thinner than plate 2 on the tabs, so i went and cut down the tabs by 1mm to match plate 1, don't know if it helped but I haven't seen plate 2 stuck again.

I also put some oil on the gbox spline, the clutch discs seem to slide ok.

Spent a lot of time stuffing around with the slave cylinder, instead of a long rod with a round end, now have a nut on a bolt which, when the slave is set, you wind out and push the fork forward. Much simpler.


So as it stands now, with the clutch pedal to the floor, both plates can move slightly and i can rotate both clutch discs. However something is still putting a turning force on the gbox spline. I can't really select gears, If i start the car in gear it drags, but slowly. If i take my foot off the clutch pedal then you can feel the clutch locking the driveline.

I guess the spigot bush is next?



edit:
To answer two questions above, brought it off supraforums, that guy had purchased second hand and was yet to use it. Also, yes hanged the weight off the trans but i tried not to, too much. I carried as much weight as I could and tried to get it in most of the way first.

[dnegative]

I can't really select gears, If i start the car in gear it drags, but slowly. If i take my foot off the clutch pedal then you can feel the clutch locking the driveline

Is this with the car running?
If its on stands its normal for the wheels to turn slowly with the clutch depressed or the transmission in neutral but you should be able to select gears without issue.

[allencr]

I guess the spigot bush is next?

Yes.
But if it is really a bush/sleeve bearing I wouldn't bother, with that type bearing having plenty of clearance & zero chance of binding/seizing.
A ball or needle bearing would be more likely to fail & bind.
Use a pilot/alignment tool? How'd it turn?


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Also, put those disks on the shaft & turn each one to check their run out.