MS55 2M = dead. Advice welcome!!

[4agerolla]

Hey guys,

Been a good few years since I hit up the forums for some tech advice! I have recently bought an MS55 Crown with column shift 4 speed manual. As it turns out, the engine is rooted and needs a bottom end rebuild. It's all 100% stock, so it's running the 2M. Here is the old girl in all her glory....

photo.JPG

My question is around the options I have in getting her back on the road. The car itself is 100% original and in excelent condition, so I won't be chopping and changing anything to fit significantly more cubes under the bonnet (1UZ would be nice....). Is it worth rebuilding the existing 2M? While I'm at it I may as well try to boost performance a little, what is achievable with these motors?

Alternatively, are any of the other early M engines significantly better / easier / cheaper to get parts for or rebuild with a bit more poke, then swap into the car? I saw Rod's angry 4M he screwed together and that looked pretty interesting.

Anyway would love to head some input from you guys and some comments on your experiences!

Cheers,
Chris.

[Mjh]

Nice car

It's been a while since I had anything to do with these motors but I'm pretty sure a 5M-GE would be the best drop in motor for more go.
Only thing you would need is to make it run on carbs and set up a dizzy and coil
That's my opinion anyway but is up to you.

[4agerolla]

Thanks for the input mate. My only issue with that is the look. 5MGE doesn't have the original look, being twin cam and generally a more modern motor. Possibly thinking 4M, but not really sure if it's a much better motor than the 2M....

["Z" UTE]

Chris, if you intend to run the car on historic registration at any time in the future, your options are limited to repairing/ rebuilding the 2M or 4M. Anything more than that and the rego boys will knock you back.

If you want the car as a daily driver, most any of the M engines will do 7M-GE or 7M-GTE, their are a couple of M's mainly the 5M that people refer to simply as boat anchors.

A 1UZ-FE quad cam engine can be made to fit as long as you don't mind a foot high bonnet scoop on the car. Otherwise forget that engine, they are just too wide due to the size of the heads. A 350 chev will fit, and probably cost as much as a full rebuild on an early M engine.

1JZ and 2JZ fit nicely with the appropriate sump and mounts.

cheers Chuck.

[4agerolla]

Chuck, thanks for the advice mate. Good point re. the historic rego. I think I'd like to keep that option open just in case.

Are there any performance options when rebuilding a 2M? Obviously it's never going to be a street weapon but if it's doable why not go a bit more than standard. Do we have any old M gurus out there?!

[2004lowlux]

thanks chuck! just deflated my dream of a 1uz ms55. least now I know why I have never seen one done and why people use 7m's.

["Z" UTE]

Chris, the older M engines were designed to run low compression as we had some fairly inconsistent quality fuels back in the day!

You could specify a higher compression piston when rebuilding the engine. You could also try a regrind on the camshaft.

No1 problem I could see with the older M engines is that the crankshaft was barely one step above licorice so placing more pressure on it may not be advisable. Toyota actually ditched the 2M from their Crown utes back in the day and fitted them with R series 2 litre engines

We had good results with newish 4M's and a shot of water methanol injection. Drill a small hole in the base plate of the carby, a duplicate of the vacuum pickup for the dizzy, insert a main carb jet, then feed that jet with a mixture of alcohol and water. The water evaporates in the cylinder cooling the charge, and the alcohol/methanol/ adds the extra oomph. Limited to overtaking and pulling up hills due to the low volumes of water and alcohol that could be carried in a washer bottle! Yep that was the pump!

A good condition engine with even compression figures and a fully operational carby along with a good tuneup of the ignition system was generally all that I ever had with the MS55 and the MS65.

2004lowlux, don't let me stand in your way with my negativity!. I have envisaged grafting a HQ 1 tonner front chassis to an MS55, just to get the clearance to fit a 1UZ.

cheers Chuck

[4agerolla]

Chuck, interesting point re. the crankshaft. Do any of the later M cranks drop in? I saw that Rod used a 7M crank in his 4M, but not sure if it's the same story with the 2M.

The water methanol injection sounds interesting, but I think that's a bit much for me!

["Z" UTE]

Chris, the M engine crankshaft will be slightly different, M, 2M, 4M use chains to drive the camshafts. Later M's use belts, so the front of the cranks are different to accommodate either a chain sprocket or a belt drive. Means you need to machine crank, fit different oil pump, and mix and match bits.

Have a long chat with TheToyman75, Rod has done all the machining you will need to know about.

cheers Chuck.

[crowncustom]

For memory Rods angry 4M was done by the previous owner.Ive got an average early 4M in my MS55 with W57 and 4.1 diff cruises well on the highway but its definitely no powerhouse.Going 7M very soon.If you are looking for the standard look then a 5ME would be the go.Just get rid of the injection and find a late 4M inlet manifold and carb.
Cheers Brett.

[2004lowlux]

I'm guessing you had a decent look into putting a 1uz in a crown eh chuck? what was the issue was it sitting too high?

["Z" UTE]

I'm guessing you had a decent look into putting a 1uz in a crown eh chuck? what was the issue was it sitting too high?

Yep I had a go! I got the correct sump, the right transmission bellhousing, log manifolds the whole bit. I even had someone CNC cut me some exhaust manifold flanges and bought a bunch of mandrel bent steam pipe.

The simple fact is that the 50 series Crown is just too narrow a platform (distance between front rails and front suspension) to accommodate the width of a 1UZ. Even the later UZS131's had a problem, hence the use of a tilted engine.

A Chev LS would be my choice if I was to stray from the purist path.

My trial with the 1UZ-FE started with the engine sitting as central as possible, leaning to the left to clear the steering box, but there was an issue with fitting the exhaust manifolds. The most problematic was that the rear cylinder on the passenger bank sat with the exhaust port less than 20mm away from the upper control arm pivot point. That was with about 10mm clearance (minimum required by the engineers) to a closed bonnet. Raising the engine by about 50mm may have solved the issue, but I was unwilling to modify firewall, trans tunnel and fit a bonnet scoop just to accommodate an engine. Would have loved the V8 burble but the 2JZ-GE VVTi will do just fine, until I decide I need GTE power.

cheers Chuck.

[2004lowlux]

looks like you had a fair crack at it. LS V8's are cheap as chips given how many commodores get written off by bogans every year but the manual boxes aren't so cheap.

such a shame the uz doesn't fit seems like such a fitting combination.