ballpark 4age build cost - DIY vs workshop

[adamaw11]

I'm looking at my options for a blacktop engine build.
Trying to budget it around 3-4k.

I'd like to do an engine build myself, learning as I go, but never having dissasembled an engine, I'm concerned I could
find myself in over my head.

So my question is how much can you save on building an engine yourself as opposed to taking complete engine to a worshop
and saying please rebuild with:
-new rings,
-recondition head
-use these specific pistons and rods etc.
Are we generally talking thousands in labour alone?

Even if I do dissasembly myself, There'd be the cost of getting the block machined, and I wouldn't attempt work on the
head myself - so there's probably a fair chunk of labour there anyway(ballpark figures for honing / machining, and head
reconditioning?).

My other option I'm considering, is just buying another 20v (silvertop instead), and swapping that in, to use with my low
boost setup, so I can take my time building the blacktop myself over a year or two. But the ~1k spent on another old
secondhand engine could be better spent on the engine build.

Any other suggestions? Should ones first engine build attempt be done with low expectations?

[dnegative]

Labor to strip, access, prep and assemble a 4AGE is a good day's work, longer if there are issues and or things needs to be rectified;
Not to mention that your going to be paying a markup on work and parts they get from outside sources - but you have to remember that your going to get stung a bit getting retail machine work.

All of that aside, how much do you know about engines and putting them together well?

[old_mr2]

My first DIY rebuild was a 4agze. Get yourself a workshop manual and a good torque wrench, oh and a OEM full rebuild kit ($300). Pull down the motor yourself and you will learn a lot, its all just nuts and bolts after all. I used a local workshop for the serious stuff though, deck skimming, honing (can be done DIY), crank balancing/linishing, valve grinds etc Expect to pay $600 to $1000 for all that. Its been 5 years at 20PSI and she still purrs like a kitten.

[Hen]

I always find that things take WAY longer than I expect. So I'd consider whether you want to have the car not running for a long time while you rebuild the engine and learn, or whether the $1000 invested in a replacement is handy so you can still drive the car while you rebuild in the background.

Then again, maybe you're less slack and more motivated than I am...

[trdee]

Budget 2-2.5k for machining and assembly. Parts are extra and you should source these yourself.

You can build it if you want, will save you roughly 1k on the "machining and assembly" price, but then you have to ask yourself it is worth you accidentally doing something dumb like putting a head gasket on back to front or getting the timing out (blacktops are interference motors) or accidentally blocking an oil gallery etc and ending up with an expensive mistake?

If you want to learn and arent terribly fussed over having to start again if something goes wrong and the engine goes pop, then sure. If my engine didnt have like a billion dollars worth of parts I probably would have rebuilt it myself...

[adamaw11]

I'm leaning more towards doing a rebuild now, partly because most secondhand 4ages will be in questionable condition now and need a freshen up anyway.
But I am hoping to get the whole project done and the car driving again in about 7 months. i want to be able to drive the car to dubbo next year.
Currently, i'm trying to replace the fuel pump, but its looking like I'll have to take apart more stuff just to get to the hoses to disconnect from the fuel tank before dropping it down.


Its sounding like important things for a first timer to watch out for would be things like
-getting torque specs right
-putting everything in the right way
-doing things in the right sequence
-taking care not to forget anything

I've got a Haynes manual for the aw11, which has an engine build up in there, although for a 16v, block should be close enough to the 20v, so might be alright with following that.

Probably time to start contacting an engine builder / machinist or two in Brisbane.

[knightrous]

Probably time to start contacting an engine builder / machinist or two in Brisbane.

Chat to Graham at Precise Engine Rebuilders Pty Ltd in Southport.
Dom has had two engines done with Graham and has been happy with both.

[andrew_mx83]

Its sounding like important things for a first timer to watch out for would be things like
-getting torque specs right
-putting everything in the right way
-doing things in the right sequence
-taking care not to forget anything

Another one to add to that list is using the right chemicals in the right places, and youll need have a few different things on hand. Assembly lube, grease, WD40, engine oil, loktite, brake cleaner, FIPG, master pipe sealant (teflon), hylomar, maybe a couple of others.

As old_mr2 said, its all just nuts and bolts. I say go for it, as others have said its not that hard, just takes more time that you think it will. Get the proper toyota book and follow it to the letter, then you cant really go wrong
#1 rule is to work CLEAN. all internal and especially running (moving) surfaces should be visibly clean, then brake cleanered, wiped with a rag, then blown with compressed air and then either lubed or installed. same goes for any gasket/sealing surface.

One other thing not mentioned, when you pay them to assemble the motor you're also paying them to make a number of decisions in regard to piston clearance, ring gaps, bearing clearances etc which they may or may not be prepared to make for you if youre just getting the machining done. most will want you to provide these numbers and its not their problem if you specify a clearance too small or too large etc and it fucks the motor. If in doubt give them the toyota specs, or manufacturers spec in the case of aftermarket pistons.


Good luck!

[old_mr2]

My comments were for an OEM rebuild, if you wanted to add a whole heap of aftermarket internals or build a 9agte, Id use an experienced workshop for sure.

[dnegative]

Yeah things get iffy when you have to chose your bore clearance, rod/main clearance and file fit your rings.

[adamaw11]

Thanks for all the info guys.

I'll definately check out precise engine builders, and probably contact JHH also.
If I decide to build the block myself, I'll consider using GZE pistons and rods to keep it OEM
I found I have a blacktop manual that includes the engine rebuild procedure.